Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Kerth Noms: How do you decide?

Arawn asked this in the Kerth thread:

Good question! I've always been curious about the things that influence us as we decide which stories to nominate, in the longer categories especially. It's not easy - all sorts of factors are at work, but then the moment comes and you decide on the ones.

So what decided you? What are your filters?

Was it the plot or the writing style, or the angst level or waff level, or the insights into characterization? Subconsciously, does the author in fact matter to you? Or are your good memories of a story influenced by the nfic scenes and so you perhaps make up your mind based on the nfic version? Or do you just know: this story for that category. Does the length of a story count (a 50 K story for Overall)? Or other things I haven't thought of?

I know Labrat says she uses a pin - it's part of the Archive EIC perk package - but if we were all to do that we may as well just draw lots to determine the nominees and the winners.

So what influences your decision , both consciously and subconsciously?

A request: If you do respond to this query, please don't mention any authors or fics - want to keep this thread lobby free.

c.

Yes I assume the stick a pin method was mostly tongue in-cheek since it defeats the purpose of the award. But I know the feeling when it's all but impossible too chose between two stories.

Last year after I read the nominees I took out my favourites and it so happened that two authors came out on top multiple times. Which made me wonder if I was fair or simply a part of the herd.
So I had to reread and forced myself to spread the graces. It’s strange how stories that didn’t feel that smoking the first time quickly become favourites when I searched for the good things. I find voting especially hard when you have an author that features with lots of great stories, yet none that are my absolute favourite in any category. It feels totally unfair to not recognize this in some fashion. So I can juggle my choice from this too. This could lead to a consolation vote in a category that I didn’t see any really outstanding stories.
When I was faced with a genuine stick a pin/coin toss choice. I generally went with the less recognized author.

What generally appeals to me is verisimilitude( getting the characterisation right so that you believe they are real and sketching out the world around the protagonists.), Cleverness (Twist in the A or B plot that I are exciting and feels non-gratuitous). Dialogue(I can ignore many bad things for cracking dialogue). Then there is outstanding language, a select few authors write prose like poetry, which can suck me in like vacuum.

I almost never read alt world, or kid/ next generations stories ,or cross overs ( but gladly elseworld), so I don’t vote in those categories.

Take out 'mostly' and insert 'entirely', Arawn, and you'd have it exactly right.

Yes, it's a long-standing joke and, no, it's not meant to be taken seriously. I pick my noms based on the stories I've been most impressed with over the year (or at least I did when I was reading fanfic. I haven't read much for so long now that I doubt I'll be sending in any noms at all. I just don't have the time to catch up en masse. Who the author is has never featured in my calculations at all. It's something that doesn't matter to me. Newbie, fan favourite, old timer, one shot wonder <G> - they write the story I thought was best in the category, they'll get my vote.)

The pin is such a long-standing joke that only recently I discovered to my vast amusement that it's mentioned in the Kerth FAQs

I don't know who added that in, but thanks for the chuckle.

There is another option, of course. Perhaps they simply wrote the best stories that year. I sometimes think that we can analyse our choices too far, worry about the reasons too much, and miss sight of the fact that maybe we chose a certain story because it was well-written. You know, now and then, it does happen.

LabRat

I'd like to think that most of us don't look at the author when reading a fic, but sadly I don't think that's true. Bravo to those of you who can truly do that. If it came down to two stories for me, I'm sure I'd pick my favorite author. I rather liked Arawn's idea of going with the less recognized author, though.

What I do is I take the list of eligible fics and start reading. Each fic gets a 1-4 rating (with in-between ones like 2-3 and 3-4). I write a description of the story and put it with title and rating under the appropriate categories. I do *not* write the author there. That helps me not focus on authors so much, just the stories that stuck out based on good description, dialogue, plot, etc. I only nominate 3-4 and 4 rating stories, 4s being the ones I read that left me slightly breathless and stunned. There's always a few every year, and at least half of 'em nearly always win in some category or another, often best overall. Only time I do pay attention to authors is in deciding who to vote for, I try to make sure I haven't voted on a particular story or author for too many categories, unless the stories just plain stand above the rest. When it's impossibly close, though, I figure it makes more sense to spread it out.

So that's how I do it . . . though I'm really behind. Right now I'm still going through new author fics, much less the rest of the list! I'll be up late a few nights trying to get 'em read, evaluated, and noms sent in in time, I'm sure . . .

This being my first year I am going about it by reading all the stories again.

I am starting by length categories and as I read them if I think they were worthy I put them on a list with a short summary so I remember which are which. I then widdle the list down a bit from there.

Then I plan on keeping an eye out for the other categories as I go until I have read everything (or skimmed it if I have read it before) and have suggestions for them all.

Hah! I LOVE that LabRat!

And I can say this next part because I am such a newbie (haven't even hit the 1 year mark yet). I don't think anyone should feel like they shouldn't nom or vote for an icon, or an old-timer, or maybe someone who just gets "talked about" or "mentioned a lot". Here's the thing -- if *everyone* felt that way, then those writers wouldn't get any noms. So I personally won't be noming or voting for a newbie only because they are a newbie (well except in that "new authors" category ) -- I will nom/vote for a newbie if I really feel that their story was the best.

This is a vote to express how YOU personally truly feel about the fics you have read this year. Which fics really touched you? Which ones left you in tears? Which ones were you sitting on the boards hitting the refresh key every 5 minutes because the author said they were getting ready to post the next part?

I'm going to nom/vote for the stories based on my heart - not based on outside criteria... whether the author was an icon or a newbie; whether the story received lots of fdk or very little... etc, etc, ad nauseam.

There's my 2 cents worth - for what they're worth - which probably isn't much except maybe to my dogs and, even then, that's iffy.

-- DJ

Well said, DJ! My feelings exactly.

To quote (or should that be misquote) the old adage: It's the tale, not the teller.

LabRat

I can’t remember a story in the last years Kerth nominee list that I didn’t consider well-written. I clearly had favourites though were the decision was easy, But I also noticed that established authors had a distinct advantage for my attention. Diving into a story by an “icon” is easy, I have a fairly good idea what I’m going get and that I’m not going to be disappointed. Reading a story by miss No-name OTOH had elements of a chore. The first time I discovered that I simply skimmed some of them to be able to eliminate them.
Furthermore I doubt many spent as much time evaluating the candidates as I did last year and if I didn’t give the fringe players a chance who would?

MR, I don’t pity vote as such. The final verdict is always based on how much I enjoyed the story but when one author barely lose out in several categories, I do re-examine the field. I would never vote for a newbie just because he/she is new. But when I have narrowed it down to two stories it’s a factor I consider.
I assure you the Icon’s do get votes from me,(fairly often they are icons for a reason ) and in any case doubt your scenario were the favourites are discounted is a concern. It would surprise me if some authors don't get votes on name recognition alone. This is how the human mind works.

That is my sentiment. But I wonder if it is universal. Best story can mean several things, most well written for example.

I'll bet Bernie wouldn't like you ruining those gadgets, anyway.

And after reading my sister's comments, I wish I could finish half of the eligible stories by the time nominations will close. Good luck, everyone, and happy nominations.

I also thought about this: sometimes a story that manage to rub me in the right spots is put against a story that I feel is better quality wise, just that it has a feature(s) that makes me not care for that much for it, say a (IMO)silly premise or an off portrayal of a character. (hence less enjoyment, for me)

So what should I chose? which story is "better"?

JMO here, Arawn, but I'd pick the story that "rubbed me in the right spots" (so resisting that straight-line opportunity ) over the one with "the silly premise or the off portrayal of a character". But then I probably wouldn't have finished reading the latter story. That said, though, I take "well written" as a given; I wouldn't have finished reading the story otherwise.

Unless the "silly premise" was a short comedy fic which is a whole other matter.

However, the "well-written" becomes more important to me in the final vote - if I'm trying to decide between two or three fics that have told great stories, have spot-on dialogue, good characterization etc, it's the quality of the writing that's the final filter for me. Does that make sense or have I contradicted myself?

I'm impressed by the 1-4 ranking system! One year I set up a lovely flow chart which would have been a huge help if only I'd actually used it. Wish I had done it this year too. There may be fewer fics this year but there are a great many good ones.

This year the toughest category for me is turning out to be the Alt/Esleworld/Next Gens - there are a lot of good stories in both the Elseworld & Alt, plus several in the Next Gen. Sort of apples and oranges choice. I hesitate to dismiss stories in one of those three genres because even though I generally don't care for stories in that particular genre (Alt World for me) I've found a few stories in that genre that I really like a lot.

Still not finished checking out all the 2006 fics yet - thank goodness there's still 2 more weeks.

CC,
Silly premise was perhaps not quite right, just say one that you don't care for.
Let's say that the author is superheavy on the angst, which makes me virtually unable to enjoy the story, but the writing in itself is just mindblowingly good(head and shoulders over the competition) you can buy everything, plot characterisation etc, you just don't enjoy the story.
This is an author you really want to see more of, that you want to encourage, preferable to write something lighter next time.

Should I just put it in the wastebasket?

Well, you just have to decide if the story is truly the best in the category -- and I think "overall enjoyment" ought to feature heavily in your choice. I'd rather read a wonderful story by an author who has a few rough edges than a boring clunker that's gramatically perfect. The "wonderful story" part is what should be encouraged, IMO. Technical writing skills can always be improved.

There have been many times when I've thought a story was very well-written but I didn't really enjoy it, for whatever reason. That's not "best" for me. And I always figure, there are probably other people out there who really love that kind of story, so it'll do fine, with or without me.

But then on the *other* other hand... reading a story by a new author can give you such a breathless "wow" feeling precisely because you *don't* have a fairly good idea of what to expect. That freshness can be invigorating.

Also, if there's a well-known author whose stories I haven't really been keen on in the past, I will be less likely to try the latest one -- even though it might be fantastic and I'd love it if I read it.

Even with authors I tend to enjoy, it's easy to stick them in a box -- a feeling of "been there, done that" -- but then you're in danger of missing out when an author shifts focus.

People who have time to read everything don't have that problem, I suppose, but unfortunately I don't have time to read everything.

PJ

For me there's a difference between 'well written' and just the competent use of grammar. "Well-written'" goes beyond that, and is much more subjective. Ultimately, I suppose it means the author has a strong sense of narrative or a way of capturing the mood of a setting or the sense of a character. I was hoping to avoid getting into that distinction, but Pam makes a good point Thank goodness for those GEs who clean up our technical writing skills making us all appear to be better writers than we are

Not touching the angst issue. There be dragons.

c.

I agree here. I've read few stories where a general "well written" just isn't enough. These days, I judge stories based on how interesting they are to me. A lot of well-written stories frankly bore me and I can't get past the first sections. Well-written doesn't mean that the writer isn't doing a lot of telling and not enough showing, which to me is where the greatest writing pitfalls lie. In general, a story that gets my attention is one which makes me think and gives insight into the characters. I don't necessarily believe in the existence of silly plots, just plots that haven't been given enough grounding. Hence bad, or rather, limp writing despite overall correctness of grammar, relative success in painting mood and acceptable characterizations.

That isn't to say that I will ignore poetic and beautiful prose. In fact, I can ignore a general rehashing of an overdone premise or overwrought dialogue for a fic whose style calls attention to the language in a way that others don't.

alcyone

alcyone said:
I wonder if one person's 'interesting' isn't someone else's 'well-written'? I'd say that in a lot of cases a boring story is one that isn't well-written.

Not always though - a story about Clark's college football practices would have to be extraordinarily written to make it anything less than mind numbingly boring. Although I bet others might really like the premise and be totally involved after the first mention of 'pigskin'.

And conversely, if a story has an interesting premise but is ploddingly (although grammatically correctly) written, I'll snooze off at the end of page one.

I'd say that's a well-written story.

btw, I'm not suggesting that how well written the story is should determine whether a story gets a nomination, only that it is one criterion, and that when I can't decide between a couple of stories, both of which I really liked, the quality of writing becomes a more important factor.

For other readers it could be a different filter - the more dialogue the better, the more angst the better, the more humour the better, etc.

Of course the ultimate filter:
Is Bill Henderson in the story?

c.

Alcyone said:
In general, a story that gets my attention is one which makes me think and gives insight into the characters.

and Carol replied:
I'd say that's a well-written story.

Pam wants to add:
Maybe, maybe not <g> I know I can really enjoy a story while still being aware of some large flaws. So I wouldn't call it "well-written," although I might still nom & vote for it. As you say, Carol, it's a whole package of things we look for, and it's hard to single out the specifics.

When it comes down to two really good stories that are both really well-written... that's when it gets interesting And that seems to happen a *lot* around here. Lucky us

PJ

Bravo, exactly. It's characterization, it's dialogue, it's writing style it's interesting introspection, it's a thought out plot; the list could go on forever.

Despite my squatter-like appearance on these boards, I actually have a lot less time on my hands than it seems. So something really has to catch my attention for me to stick with it either here or reading it on the Archive. And when I vote, I'm not going to sit around thinking, well that story has good characterization, or that story had an interesting premise. I need to be able to say, "Hey. That story was a hell of a ride, and I loved every minute of it!"

JD