Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Kerth Buzz

Oscar buzz is starting, and it got me thinking... Are we allowed to discuss what authors and stories we think are potential '07 Kerth winners? You know, get some Kerth buzz going?

In addition to just being fun to talk about, hearing about the stories some of you think are award-worthy may help us newbies catch up on some we may have missed from earlier in the year.

Sounds like a great idea to me I know there's a lot of things I've missed this year, so it'd be helpful to get a recap -- and starting this early makes it easier for people like me to catch up.

Remember, the categories will probably change somewhat from last year; they usually do. But this might be the thread that helps the K-Com identify this year's hot new trend.

So buzz away!

PJ

Sounds groovy. If there are any stories people loved this year, I'd love to hear about them! Also helps me catch up on my reading instead of staring blankly at the final nominations list like I do every year saying, "Did I really miss that many stories?!"

Jen

Here some of the stories at the top of my list, although I am not sure which categories they should go in: She's by Terry. Group Therapy by Shayne. Lost In Time by MLT. The Pen by Sara/tvnerdgirl (although I can't recall if there was a gfic version of that). Faustian by Sue. Supermen United by DJ. If I Were You by Caroline, and Stardust as well if she finishes it in time. SQD's fascinating When Galaxies Divide, but that is also a WIP.

Best New Author is harder because, since I am a newbie myself, I am not always sure who is new and who isn't. But my first thoughts are Sue, Caroline and DJ, if they all qualify.

Of course most of these stories are quite recent because I only discovered these boards in July. Any stories from earlier in the year in mind?

Is there a category for best cross-over, or best sequel to a cross-over? Or even best next-gen? 'Cause if so for ANY of those, I'd nominate Meet Sam Wayne by C. Leuch.

I only just got into full FoLC-dom this past February, so I caught the VERY tail end of the last Kerth awards. I'm not exactly sure how they work, exactly. Can anyone tell me?

*raises her hand* I'm new...
Mind you, I don't think I'm half as good as these girls are, but I'm new.

Hey, this sounds like a job for...
www.kerthawards.com

Basically, they'll make a list of all the eligible stories. We'll all send in nominations under which category we think a story should be nominated (after they decide on the categories for the year). And once those are counted and sorted, the short-list of final nominees will be up. (Those are the ones you see with a fancy red Kerth icon at the Archive.) And then we'll all vote *again* on the short list to have a final winner per category.

But the kerth site can go way more in-depth. I'm limited by my chances of the internet crashing on me. :p

Jen

And you're brilliant. Seriously. The plot you came up with for All Weathered Out rocks my world.

I think Faustian Bargain is definitely gonna win something. It's already a 'classic'. I also think 'She's' was excellent.

When do the nominations start? I don't think the 2006 winners were announced until this past June, were they?

Although we each have favourites in all categories, I'm not sure we've ever had quite such an open discussion as this thread suggests because of how discouraging these types of exclusive lists get for those who don't get mentioned.

What has happened in the past is that K-Com puts up a list of all the eligible stories as well as new authors. That way no one is left out.

As well, the Q quizzes for each of the categories provide good overviews of what stories are out there. These quizzes are not completely inclusive, but given the custom of wrting to the quizzmaster with additional suggestions, they wind up being useful guides.

Also, there are stil nearly two months left before the eligibility period ends - who knows what yet may be posted?

However, what the K com might find helpful is a discussion of the categories themselves - suggestions for deletions, additions, revised descriptors. (although the K Com hasn't indicated if it is interested in having that discussion - it is perhaps a little early )

But please, lets not get into lobbying for our personal favourites.
That can leave those not mentioned feeling ... well ... a tad like chopped liver.

c.

I agree with Carol - there are just too many good stories and authors out there to start singling people out this early.

Maybe we can use this thread for a more general discussion of story categories and "trends" (as Pam called it)? I'm new here so I'm curious to learn what the trends were.

I know I'm going to have a horrendous time trying to choose people to nominate and stories to nominate... all the ones I've read were all so good. We have such a talented group of authors in this forum (all of the newbies included)...

I'll be excited to see the qualification list come out because then I'll know for sure which stories I missed... I've only been here since March, so it will be nice to see what I haven't had time yet to read.

Ditto that, Sue.

-- MR

This is exactly why I asked at the beginning if it was ok to do this! I was trying to avoid ... this.

Thanks, Jen!

Actually, what you are talking about are the Alt-Kerths, which is quite different from our regular Kerths. Quizzes usually start in January, the nomming at the end of February, voting a few weeks later, and then at the end of March/start of April, we'll have the ceremony. That'll also be the time when the winners are announced.

So that leaves us with about five months of reading time... guess I should start reading, as I've been very bad about it this year!

Saskia

First, let me state (and I'm not talking as Kerth Coordinator or as a Boards administrator here, but as a simple Lois and Clark fan and fanfic writer and reader, so that's only worth my .02 eurocents and has absolutely no official value!) that I've never minded reading about other people's recommendations. Quite the opposite. I enjoy seeing what other readers think of fanfics I've read or have yet to read. And you can't say it's because my stuff is being quoted, because that's usually not the case. There are so many stories out there anyway.

What I mean is that personally, I've never seen that as lobbying for personal favourites. To me, those threads are more like the reviews on amazon.com. When I've read a book I've enjoyed, I want to tell other people that I've enjoyed it and why.

A few years back, we had fanfic recommendations posted on a regular basis. I wish we still had that, because it was nice to read about other people's impressions on their reading, and it would lead me to read stuff that I might not have taken the time to read in the first place.

Anyway, now as Kerth Coordinator, a bit of clarification: it's never too early to discuss the Kerth Awards, if just to get everyone in the mood. The list of eligible stories comes out in early January, and the quizzes take place between January and February, until nominations start. A final list of categories will also be released in early January.

Kaethel
Fanfic reader first and foremost
(and occasionally Kerth Coordinator, but just for the last paragraph of this post )

Absolutely no reason why we can't have recommendations and, indeed, I'd hope people would still begin threads asking for recs or offering up recs on fic they may have read outside this forum, on other sites. I'd definitely miss them if they didn't! They've often pointed me to some great stories I'd otherwise have missed.

I'd love, in fact, to see a rec thread for some of the older fic on the Archive. The stuff that nowadays gets missed just because of the length of time it's been there, but deserves the recognition.

There is a section for author's to recommend their favourite fanfic from other authors in the Writers' Showcase Interview forms. We've begun a new batch of interviews recently. So look out for those being uploaded to Annesplace in the near future! We've already had some terrific interviews back and I believe the first of them will be uploaded to the website soon. Watch out for updates here in the Fanfic Related folder.

Technically, Lisa, it is okay to do this! You've broken no rules of the forum at all. And you can't be telepathic and predict what reaction every single board member is going to have to a thread you begin. (Unless, of course, it's a predictable attempt to provoke, which doesn't describe this thread at all). If we didn't post because we worried about that, we'd post nothing at all.

So, basically, as far as this particular thread goes, it's simply down to whether you continue on as you intended, or decide to cede to the request of other board members, not to. If you take the latter course, it would be a courtesy, but that's all. And there are good reasons, now and then, for doing just that, of course.

But there's no official reason why you shouldn't discuss particular stories. It's entirely up to you.


LabRat

I understand what Helene and Labrat are getting at, but with respect, they both have been among the most frequently cited writers and so perhaps, from that perspetcive, it may be more difficult to understand how really discouraging it can be for some writers who are overlooked.

Of course, it's always interesting to read the feedback for particular stories as they're being posted or a recommendation for a previously "unseen" fic that has just been posted to the archive. And the Kerth quizzes are always fun

But those are different things compared to lists which exclude others.

If people are interested to get caught up on stories, the archive makes it easy to get the descriptors of the stories posted in the last few months - back to May. Perhaps Labrat or someone connected with the Archive could post a list fo the stories posted in the earlier months of this year?

Maybe we could have a volunteer to to do a very brief review (depending on story length of course ) of each of the stories posted in January. Each review could include a couple of things that the reviewer thought was good about the story, e.g. strong characterization, quirky or interesting plot device, great dialogue, etc. as well as a brief quote from the story.

I'd be prepared to start it off with the first story posted to the archive in January as long as it's not a Lois deathfic.

c.

Well, dragging this thread back to its original purpose - ie, to create some Kerth buzz - and taking on board Pam and Sue's comments...

What's your favourite Kerth category? Personally, my favourite is Best Original Character. I love the fact that we're now able to reward those writers who've taken the first few scary steps beyond the strict boundaries of L&C to create something brand new and entirely their own. I feel we're doing our bit to encourage and nurture fledging writers who might just be ready to leave the L&C nest and fly out into the big wide world of Real Fiction.

Anyone else got a favourite?

Yvonne

Far from me to beat a dead horse, but... *g* Carol, I think you give my stories too much credit. I don't feel they've been cited that often, and I've frequently seen lists of recommended fanfics without my name attached to any of them. Not that I've kept count. But anyway...

The thing is, if I say I like potatoes, it doesn't mean I don't like rice. It just means that tonight I've had fantastic potatoes and I want to tell the world how good they were.

I mean, it's like when Carol says she doesn't like Lois deathfics. That's absolutely fine. It's her taste, and I sure hope people who write Lois deathfic don't feel horribly hurt that Carol doesn't like the genre they enjoy writing. See what I mean?

It seems even less significant when you've got fanfic recommendations: Reader X recommends Story Z. Doesn't mean Story K isn't any good or that Reader X dismissed it. It just means Reader X might have just read Story Z and wants to recommend it to other readers who might enjoy it as well. The following day, Reader R might recommend Story K, for all we know.

Sure, if people want to start doing systematic reviews for every single story on the archive, I'll be an eager reader. However, I wonder why we just can't do things simply. We just can't walk on eggshells all the time. Just like everyone else, I don't want to hurt people's feelings when I can avoid it. However, I think that censoring myself when I've loved a story and would like to recommend it is pushing it a bit too far. Because if we go there, then the Kerth Awards could equally hurt people who don't get nominated or win an award, and we might argue that since they might hurt some feelings, they have to go.

Kae

ps: Carol, could you please avoid using my real name on the boards? No big deal, but I usually stick by my nick. Makes things easier all round. Ta!

I'm very sorry, about using your name, Kae. I didn't realise you didn't want it used.

I'm not sure my difficulty with Lois deathfic is exactly the same thing as excluding some writers from a lists of favourites. Deathfic is a genre, and so my dislike of it is independent of the writer. I could be crazy about one fic you'd written, but just not have read a deathfic you'd written because it's , well, a deathfic. You'd make my favoutites list, but not with the deathfic.

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about whether some writers find it a downer to read a thread with several "favourites" lists, none of which they're on, or whether it even matters if they care.

Favourite catregory - well what Yvonne said:) But also a category that got dropped - Best Villain - lots of fun with that one.

c.

Oooh, what an intriguing discussion this has turned in to.

Yvonne, I'm so glad you reminded me of this. I loved this category too. And I look forward to a refresher on what new characters were created this year by various authors. I hope this category makes it to the Kerths this coming year <ahem... hint, hint>

-- MR

Hmmm.

Ok it's actually hard for me to pick a favorite category! But there are 2 I really like...

Best Episode Adaptation.
You can never rewrite Season 1 enough for me! I'll read a PML story or BatP/HoL over and over and over... :p

I need to stop looking at the past categories LOL. Best Epic Drama had a great couple of years. I love sinking my teeth into a huge story!

Also, I loved it back when Elseworlds could fill up a category all on its own. I think it's so innovative when authors can create a different meeting situation or even career for L&C and still have the dynamic mesh...

But anyway, it will be great to see which categories are filled this year.

Has anyone noticed any rashes of certain kind of story this year? Just for example, I was looking through the past winners saying 'oh, I remember the year of New Krypton' and 'that was the year of TOGOM' or 'I cried a lot last year' etc... :p

JD

Thanks, Labby. I think I will just let this one go wherever it goes.

And right now, it seems to be going to towards favorite categories. Mine probably is Best Tearjerker. There are very few stories that have made me cry (I can only think of one offhand, actually) but I really love ones that succeed.

Okay, want to add another favourite category - does this look like I can't make up my mind?

But best Vignette.

Because, in a very limited space, a vignette can capture the essence of what Is "Lois and Clark". Or be wildly funny. Or poignant. Because, to succeed it has to be both well and tightly written. Because I can't write one.

c.

I would too. I love the older stuff, even those of people who've been gone for a long time. Gorn anyone? I think a lot of the newer people would love it too if they knew it was out there. The fanfic quotes games might give them more exposure. I know both authors I refer to are ones who wrote some of the foundational stories on the Archive. But a rec thread is a great idea.

I can sort of see your point here, Carol, which does leave me a little torn. On the one hand, I do like recs. I'll be honest and admit that these days I tend to only read stories someone I trust recs to me because of time concerns. Also, reminders of old stories I liked lead to me rereading.

On the other, I do realise that some authors are extremely close to their work and really do get hurt when people don't talk about it. I personally don't deal with this, but that's probably because I've got a whopping total of two stories up and can't realistically expect to be cited with that number. Also, I've looked up to some authors for a substantial chunk of my life. Even if I had a lot of great stories to cite, I'm not sure I'd be upset by their omission from a list just as I'm sure T.S. Eliot never felt slighted when Shakespeare was mentioned while he himself was omitted while Marlowe definitely did have that problem.

Do you feel it would be less of a touchy subject if we were talking about the older fanfics rather than new ones/new authors? I just wonder if older fanfic writers might be more immune to that sort of feeling? I wouldn't want to make people feel badly, but I also see the value of suggesting stories for people to read. What a conundrum.

I think we've seen quite a few cross-overs in the short time I've been here if I'm not mistaken--not only the various SR ones, but a Buffy one too, I believe. How many are needed to "fill" a category? Or would those get dumped into an 'Elseworlds' category?

About the not giving recs for fear of making writers left out, it seems like Kae said similar to walking on eggshells. There are individual fdk threads for authors to get encouragement and support. Now, if someone feels like talking about a story that particularly touched them to the community, I see no reason why that should affect X author that isn't mentioned.

We can't all be William Faulkners and not getting a shout out in a Kerth thread should be no reason to get discouraged. Plenty of great actors have never even been nominated for an Oscar.

I've occasionally been referenced, and I have to admit that I love it when people talk about me (in a good way).

It's a little disappointing to not be talked about. Unless you are in a really small category (Elseworld stories where Clark is Batman), and people list all the other stories except yours, then all not getting talked about means that people haven't gotten around to you yet.

Truth is, I like reading recommendations because they give me ideas to read stories I might otherwise not read. Also, the more ego stroking people get, the more motivated they are to keep writing. That can't be all bad. <g>

Hi, Carol,

The stories on the archive's What's New page do currently go back only to May (we prune the What's New page to keep it reasonably short and fast-loading), but earlier stories are still around in the What's New format. After they fall off the end of the list, we put them in their own monthly By Date pages. So stories from January to April 2006 are still accessible in the What's New format.

With By Date you can step back in time all the way to April 1996. Lois & Clark fanfic was already a few hundred stories old by the time the archive came into being, so it's harder to organize the earlier ones by date.

There's a link at the top of What's New pointing to the By Date pages, but I forgot to include the more obvious link at the bottom of the page when we moved to the new look. Just added it back. It's more intuitive, I think. Thanks for the jog.

I like your idea of writing reviews for stories, and also for finding ways to recommend older stories. The fanfic quote/opening lines games have been lots of fun. Wasn't there a recommendation recently for "Strange Visitors"? I went back and reread it the other day. It's one of my favorites. And one of my "if I were a movie producer" fantasy picks.

-- Lauren

Shayne wrote:

OK, I would like to make a blanket recommendation here to anyone who hasn't read Shayne's stories: READ THEM!

The short ones, the long ones, they're ALL FANTASTIC!

Shayne, there's something about your voice and use of language that really resonates with me. Every sentence you write says what it says but also seems to say so much more. How do you do that? You always surprise us. When I think I know where the story is heading, you fork onto another plot path. Your characters are complex -- and remote in a way that makes me want to climb through the words and give them a hug. The mood you set is adult and intelligent, and like somewhere in the distance a saxophone is wailing sadly. When I want to recommend a story to someone who's never heard of fanfic, I usually point them toward "Hearts and Diamonds." That story gives me goosebumps on every read.

Please write more.

-- Lauren

In my previous fandom there were authors everyone fawned over and then there were the newbies like myself. I've realized in my limited time here that this community is a much nicer, much more supportive place, but I still live with the memory of what I knew before.

I remember writing my heart out and not garnering much notice. I hated it. When I and some of the authors I was friends with finally did start to get noticed some of the more established authors backstabbed and gossiped and were just generally unpleasant. So when I see my name come up with mentions of Kerths I have this confused reaction. I'm elated at the notice - I really, truly am. But a part of me is terrified because I fear the backlash. For what it's worth, I don't fear a backstabbing campaign in this community. I do fear that people will see my name or a story of mine mentioned and decide "eh, everyone else is voting for her/that one, I'll pick someone else".

Just my paranoid, conflicted two cents...

Okay, I'm confused. There are two different kinds of Kerths? There are regular Kerths and Alt-Kerths? Somebody needs to explain this to me.

And someone mentioned older stories. I thought only the stories that had come out in a certain period of time were eligible. Am I wrong?

I'd like a bit of an explanation here about all this. I found the kerth awards site a bit confusing. (But maybe that's because my aunt just died...)

No, not really. Recently, I've been co-ordinating new Writers' Showcase Interviews for Annesplace. I was slightly...don't really know what the word might be...amused maybe...to note in passing that, back in the day, in the section for recommending fanfic by other author my own stories got mentioned quite regularly. Whereas they haven't been mentioned once in the interviews I've gathered in so far! Hey, finally I'm a has-been! So, to be honest, Carol, I can't say it really bothers me. But I can say that I've had the experience. <g>

That's not to say that I don't understand the perspective of someone who it does bother. But then I don't think I said anything in my previous post to indicate that I didn't. There's a difference between pointing out to someone that they've broken no forum rules and that trying to avoid another board member's hurt feelings is a courtesy and saying, "You're wrong to feel bad."

And, I've spent a lot of time in the past worrying about those who are discouraged by not getting a Kerth nomination. We're very much the victims of our success there, I fear. Each year some terrific stories get left in the dust and don't make the list just through sheer pressure of numbers. I know that each year I have more than one pang of regret for those which didn't, but which are wonderful stories that in most any other fandom would not only make the noms list, but actually win the awards. So, yes, I do have a great deal of empathy with that point of view. I've often tried to think of a solution to the problem, but so far haven't come up with anything. But do I think that means we should abandon the Kerths and stop rewarding our top talent? No, not at all.

There's also, imo, a great difference between praising your favourite stories and recommending them to readers who may have missed them and lobbying for them to receive a Kerth. And, to be honest, I can't say I've seen much of the latter on this thread so far.

I guess it's a glass half empty/full situation. If someone says, "Hey, Story X was great! It's on my personal Kerth list", then it tends to be viewed in one of two ways. Some people will see it as a/ Praising a story you enjoyed, much in the manner you do in fdk threads and some people will see it as b/ lobbying. Now, to me, lobbying would be "Story X is brilliant! You must add it to your Kerth list or you're a moron!". But I guess it all comes down to personal perspective. Like most things in the world. Is praising one particular story just praising a story? Or is it slighting all the other authors you didn't mention? For me it's the former. But I realise others have the opposite opinion.

And, I do have to say, Carol, that I think you do your own stories a great disservice here. I've seen few recommendations threads or fanfic quote threads where your stories aren't mentioned. Check out the current ones and I think you'll find you're well represented. I know that I remember your old stories very fondly and have often chosen them in those threads myself, in the past.

Which is another point. Aren't fanfic quote threads recommendation threads in all but name? You began one yourself, Carol. A large majority of members obviously find them fun. They've always been popular in the past and obviously still are. Yet, I'm sure some authors haven't been mentioned (yet! I think the current one looks set to run forever! <G>) and could have hurt feelings as a result. So, should we think about avoiding them, too? I'd really hope not, personally, because I find them enormously fun. And they've often led me to great stories.

I guess the point I'm making here is that we could go on indefinitely, pruning out all of the fun on the forum. Rec threads, fanfic quote threads, Kerths...just because we're afraid and anxious to avoid slighting anyone. I don't think that's either logical, possible or even desirable. It would make for a very boring fandom imo. Where do we draw the line? Where does it end? The fact is that this forum is all about fanfic. Writing it, posting it, discussing it. I don't much see how it could continue if you begin to censor or discourage the latter. It's inevitable that in a forum which focuses on fanfic, you're going to get people talking about it. And that includes recs and praise, here and there.

Actually, there are three Kerths. <G> Just to confuse you further.

The Kerths deal with fanfic up to the PG13 rating.

The nKerths deal with nfic only.

The Alt Kerths deal with all the other talented things people do which aren't fanfic. Music vides, websites, artwork...and so on.

If that was the reference I made to older stories, I was referring to them purely in the sense of someone starting a thread recommending their favourite ones to other readers. Not in the sense of connection with the Kerths.

LabRat

At no point was I suggesting we do that in my posts, either, Labrat so not sure why you've said that. In fact I suggested a couple of things which might address people's concerns about not being up on all the stories out there. After all, we're all pretty aware of the stories that have been posted recently, but it's those January stories...

The Kerths is after all, an awards event. What I was suggesting though is that we be sensitive in the process of getting to the Kerths.

Whether you or I have ever been on anyone's list of favourites is a bit of a red herring, simply because, well, we have been on a couple of lists.

LOL. Not much subtly there at all. But why mention a story is on your Kerth list if you wreren't intending, among other things, of course, to influence others? I can see that sort of "listing" discussion in an IRC chat where you can debate the pros and cons of those stories you're thinking about nominating. You know, the "Fic X was beautifully written, but there was this Grand Canyon plot hole" sort of thing.

as for the fanfic quote game - well, you've got a point there, Labrat. I do agree they can be discouraging when you don't get quoted or when you're quoted so late in the game you feel like you're "bottom of the barrel".

I started the "opening lines quotes" because I was interested to see what types of openings grabbed people's attention. But that sounds like a weak defence now.

My point through all this is to ask for some thoughtfulness for the feelings of those excluded from these lists during our travel to the Kerths. I've never posted a Kerth favourites lists on the mbs, although I've e-mailed writers after reading a story to say I'd enjpyed it so much I'd be Kerthing it. That's private, though.

c.

coming back to Kerth categories.

I was reminded of this by Labrat's lobbying comment. So blatant lobbying warning!

We need a "Best Inspector Henderson" category. (This marks my third year lobbying for this. )

c.

I've never participated in the Kerths, as either a writer or a reader, nor have I ever been involved in a fandom that had such a well-organized awards system. So I'm interested to watch this process play out and see what it's like, and I don't really have strong feelings one way or another about what the 'road to the Kerths' should look like.

I do, however, have kind of strong feelings about this:

It's readily apparent that IRC is an integral part of this fandom and has been for some time, and obviously fics are going to be discussed in there. But I don't participate in chats - don't have the time - and I'm sure I'm not the only writer for whom that's true. I don't assume that people are going to be talking about my fics at all, and I don't think it would hurt my feelings if there was Kerth discussion on the boards and I wasn't mentioned. It would make me uncomfortable, however, if I found out that people were discussing a "plot hole the size of the Grand Canyon" in one of my stories in a chat in which I wasn't a participant. I have review threads for that, and readers are welcome to point out that plot hole or anything else, but it sure is nicer if they do it where I can see it and respond to it, or fix it, or maybe improve my writing as a result of it, rather than in a chat where I'm not likely to hear of it.

I do appreciate your point - that by confining these discussions to chats, there's no public record and fewer feelings might be hurt. And I've said a hundred times that once a writer posts a story, he or she has no control over what is said about it, where it's said, or whether anything is said at all (and yes, sometimes that silence can be deafening and more painful than a so-so review). Obviously, this extends to chats as well. If I post a story in a fandom where people get together and chat, there's not one thing I can do about the fact that people might eventually get around to saying something about me. I get that, I really do. It's just that if it's something negative, I'd a whole lot rather it be said to my face, as it were, rather than behind my back. That's just my personal opinion, of course, and is worth what you paid for it

Best,

Caroline

I do apologise for the Grand Canyon comment, Caroline - I intended it as a bit of an over-the-top joke.

Haven't actually ever heard anyone use that hyperbolic metaphor in IRC . But I have come into IRC in the past when the fics of people who weren't present were being discussed, although mostly the discussions were even-handed, not to mention brief. I haven't been in IRC in some time now and so I can't speak for what currently happens. However, I can certainly understand your unease with that - have to say I felt it, too, at the time.

Oh, god, yes. couldn't agree more with that point.

And, as someone who has posted fics to these mbs, I would second your hope, that comments in the feedback thread for any story would include pointing out plot holes, etc as well as the cheers. I know I've found that sort of thing useful. Although, of course, I have also been very pleased to just have a "reading it and liking" it comment.

As for your lack of distress on never making anyone's favourite's list, I am in awe. But I know that not all the writers here feel that way.

The Kerths are a good 5 months away. That's a long time for some writers to be getting the 'chopped liver' message, imo.

But it does give us a lot of time to go back and pick up the stories we missed earlier in the year. That's why I think that a list of January stories uploaded ot the archive would be helpful. Then maybe after a couple of weeks, the February list, etc. But this may be difficult to do, so I don't know how reasonable my request is.

btw, I don't have stories in the Kerths this year. Thought maybe I should say that.

c.

Just my two cents on this touch and go subject...

I think the Kerths are wonderful, and while I'm in awe that I would be mentioned personally on this thread - I highly doubt that I'll be taking home a Kerth this year - there's just too much good competition (it's like with the Superbowl... I've come to realize I may live and die without seeing my team in there - hee hee.) And I am so totally okay with that - the Kerth thing, not the Superbowl, that really hacks me off.

I write as a way of relieving stress. I have a few health problems that prevent me from doing a lot of other things that I might enjoy doing - but so far my ability to type hasn't been impeded any . And I get great satisfaction from being able to write stories and share them on these wonderful message boards.

What I enjoy most of all is fdk on my stories - good, bad, public, private, or otherwise. That's what makes it rewarding for me. But even if these boards didn't exist and there wasn't a way to get fdk, I'd still probably write because it's therapeutic... and if nothing else, maybe I could still entertain my beta readers.

So anything beyond that... is just gravy. I have my own personal opinions on who I think should win a Kerth - and my own favorites... okay, so maybe I'm a little partial since I beta one of the writers... but still.

I like the comment about walking on eggshells. This is a respectful community where we come to share exciting and interesting news but also to discuss our favorite Lois and Clark fiction. I don't think anyone should be restricted from what they want to say as long as what is said is respectful and appropriate for what's being discussed (ex. no flaming).

If we can get on here and discuss our personal views on where we stand with respects to deathfic and abortion and feminist rights and other stuff... then we should be able to get on here and discuss what stories we've read during the year and think deserve another look or perhaps, dare I mention it, a nomination.

I'll just go ahead and put myself out there on the chopping block and say that I personally would be stunned if both Sue and Caroline don't win "at least" one Kerth award. I think they are extremely talented authors... and I love their writing style and I don't mind saying so. It doesn't mean that anyone else has to agree with me - it's just my opinion (and like my nose, everyone else has one too) and it also doesn't mean that I don't think the rest of the authors out there aren't talented... not in the least. I've always said we have a wealth of talent on these boards... so much so that it's impossible (for me at least) to keep up with everything that's being written. I rely on the fdk threads and what I see other people writing about authors and stories... in fact, that's how/why I started reading Caroline's work (sorry I'm still delinquent on fdk Caroline - been busy).

And on one last note - I agree with Caroline - it would distress me to think that people were discussing my writing in a negative way when I wasn't around to respond or hear what they had to say. I'd much rather they tell me to my face on my fdk thread or in an e-mail (and I've rec'd a few e-mails of that kind).

Anyway, I've babbled on long enough. I was just in a particularly spunky mood this morning and thought I'd add my two worthless cents in...

-- MR

P.S. -- Carol, I love inspector Henderson. What a cool category! I second that motion... I remember seeing several stories with characterizations of him in them this year...

The Chiefs in the Super Bowl? Bwwaaaaaaaa! OMG - I laughed so hard it hurts now.

I have to ditto what Caroline said. People have mentioned talking about a story of mine on IRC and it just *kills* me that I don't know what was said. Was it good? Was it bad? Was it indifferent?

I am so going to slink into the ether now and just quit talking.

Unless someone brings up the Chiefs as Super Bowl contenders again.

Sue (whose team WON last year, but they suck big time this year so I feel your pain, DJ)

Okay, this is really off topic and I'm going to be quiet after this, I promise...

But Sue! Awww, you're killing me girl! But whose team lost to the RAIDERS last week, hmmm? I mean - the RAIDERS - come on -- cough*Steelers*cough (no offense of course to you Raider fans out there - I'm just picking on Sue...) Love ya Sue...

Okay, and to get my post back on topic...

I think there should be a category again this year for "Best Revelation" - I believe that category was in there last year (wasn't it?) and has probably been in there many times before... but dang, we've had some awesome revelation scenes this year.

<DJ slinks off to join Sue - and smack her with her 'terrible towel' >

Last off topic - I swear!

How much worse to have your team lose to a team that lost to the Raiders? Hmmmmm?

Sue <wiping away tears of mirth with her Terrible Towel - yes, I really have one>

Touche'

One thing I'm going to enjoy seeing at the Kerths next year: lots and lots of new winners. It's going to happen, because of course we have such wonderful new talent this year, for one thing, and also because a number of writers who've appeared on the nomination lists in previous years aren't writing any more. This is all good - I love seeing brand-new winners and having the Kerth wealth spread around.

As for the Best Original/Secondary Character category, I feel very proud to have been one of the people who convinced K-Com to introduce it. It's been a real success so far.


Wendy

Well, DJ & Sue, I'd chime in about my fabulous Bears, but as they just lost ot Miami of all teams...

As to Carol's suggestion of showing all January archive stories: As Lauren pointed out you can see them here:

January Archived stories

And because I'm feeling bored at work today , I'll even include the list:

Fear - Deja Vu
Growing Up Super - Luddy, Sarah
Five Crossovers That Never Happened to Lois and Clark - Rowland, Marcus L.
Just Watchin' TV - Potts, Mary
Smart Teens - Young, Susan
Far From Home - Jensguy
Grocery List - Potts, Mary
Escaping Trask - Frantz Jr., Richard
You Don't Know Me - Richards, Wendy

Enjoy!
Julie

Just catching up on a few posts upthread that I missed for some reason.

Noticed both DJ and Caroline did make the list at the top of the thread.

Lauren, thanks for explaining how to find the early stories so easily. Julie, thanks for actually posting the titles for Jan. Now I'd better write that brief review. Anyone know if any of the Jan. stories actually wouldn't be eligible for the 2006 Kerths?

Btw, Lauren, Strange Visitors wasn't cited. I think you many be confusing it with another story with "Strange" in the title.

Rachel asked:
Not really, because the exclusion issue remains the same; it's only the time that has changed. Although, I suppose those writers who aren't around anymore wouldn't care since they wouldn't see the lists.

Maybe if individual recs kept to just one or two fics, explained what it was that the reader liked about the story and we tried to be pretty inclusive as we go along?

Sue does well to remind us about the pitfall of fawning over just a few writers.

Absolutely! That's been one of the great things about the mbs.

Okay, enquiring minds need to know: what exactly is a Terrible Towel?

Yvonne

Okay, I'm not Sue, Yvonne, but I'll answer this since I was in on the joke...

It's a football thing. Pittsburgh Steelers fans have this bright yellow-orange towel that they wave at games to cheer on their team. I don't know a true, hardcore, Steeler fan who doesn't own a Terrible Towel. (I'm sure Sue can give you a better explanation of the origins of the towel - I'm just providing the basic explanation )

-- DJ <who is going to stitch an arrowhead on Sue's Terrible Towel>

P.S. - JoMurf - your Bears *are* fabulous! "Da Bears" - they just had an off day. Everyone can have an off day... but yes, Miami? ahem...

Oh and back on topic, how about another category suggestion? (It's probably been done before, but...) Best Cliffhanger? You know, stories that had a chapter or part in them that was just the absolute best Cliffhanger? The ones that made you want to *gasp* - heaven forbid - skip ahead to find out what happened, and then go back and read through.

Oooo, I like this Idea!


I was away for abit, without net. So it helps me look for stories I missed. And for the stories that are not named, Will be on the list anyway when the kerths come out. I'll read those too.


Anyway, I have a category. How bout "Best Deathfic" Do we have enough deathfics for a separate category? I always enjoy those. I know I'm odd when It comes to that. But I have seen some good ones this year, I can't pass it up.

Rach

Labrat,

It might have something to do with that, as the body of fiction continues to grow, it will be harder and harder to make a splash. But clearly it’s necessary to teach those young whippersnappers some respect. The sequel to Burnout would do nicely.

CC,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I tried to do a quick calculation and ended up with some 70 authors quoted(and several of them only run Nfic) while the archive lists several hundred authors. So, if not being quoted is a sign of being on the bottom of the barrel, the great majority are.

Besides I think it not necessarily a good indication of general popularity. People who have similar taste pick similar authors, which makes it easier for those who like that type of writing to get another quote. Some fics have memorable witty exchanges that serve very well for quoting but that doesn’t always mean that the story is stellar. I also think people have a tendency to pick quotes from the most celebrated fics, just so ensure they won’t get “stuck” with the quote.

Caroline,
Criticism is a funny thing. You never know if an authors that asked for feedback without no mercy appreciate it in reality. Or if the author’s fan base might leap to her defence creating an unpleasant atmosphere. As in all things, our most honest thoughts are reserved for people we know and who know us. If someone discussed an authors story behind her back with close friends, I don’t think it’s necessarily a sign of disrespect. (In theory at least I've never been to the chat. )

Arawn:

Yep, I absolutely agree. It's why I usually do criticism via e-mail rather than in a public forum. If the author doesn't appreciate it, she's welcome to throw it in the trash. I don't think any of us really enjoy public criticism, do we? I accept the possibility as part of the bargain when I post fic, but I've also appreciated it when people have been kind enough to send more extensive criticism privately. I've gotten some incredibly good advice that way.

No! I didn't mean to suggest that it was disrespectful or that there would be any malicious intent at all. I honestly think that if a fic was discussed in that way in chat it would be because the chatters didn't want to hurt someone's feelings, discourage someone, etc., and not because they wanted to sneak off and laugh behind their hands. It's just one of my own personal weirdnesses that the idea of being discussed in that way - even constructively - kind of bugs me. I'd rather know what was said, even if it made me go, 'ouch,' and I wound up licking my wounds for a little while.

So, Carol had suggested that maybe it was better to have discussions of Kerth contenders in chat, in order to spare people's feelings, and I was just presenting another side to that. I'm not suggesting that all authors feel the same way I do about it, though it seems that a few do. Basically what I was saying was that while yes, it is certainly possible that author A might be hurt by not being mentioned in the Kerth Buzz thread, it is equally possible that author B might be hurt if she found out secondhand that people had been talking about her plot holes in chat. I don't think there's any malicious intent in either scenario, but there's still the potential for hurt feelings.

Carol:

Oh, don't be awed! I'd truly like to think it wouldn't bother me not to be mentioned, but maybe it would. I know for sure it would have a few years ago, so I really do understand your concerns. Of course it's lovely when people say nice things about my stories. Heck, I even confessed to squealing out loud when I realized I'd been quoted in the game .

Mostly I was just trying to say that I was more uncomfortable with the idea of my stories being dissected in chat than I would be with the idea of not being mentioned in a Kerth thread. And that's just a personal position and not something I would dream of trying to foist on anyone else. Because you're absolutely right - not all authors here would feel that way.

Best,

Caroline

A quickie because I'm busy preparing my class for tomorrow and I have to go teach English to a boisterous (but nevertheless adorable) teenager later this afternoon, then convince his parents I really CAN'T stay for dinner, then... anyway.

It's fantastic to see readers/writers talk about their favourite categories. It's also great to see new ideas, and the K-Com is always open to suggestions. What I'm going to ask is this: if you have a great idea for a category you'd like to see included, could you please email us at kcom at lcficmbs dot com with your idea and a potential list of eligible stories that would fit the category in question (just so we know whether there would be enough contenders for the category in question to fly - then we on the committee can make our decision based on the careful balance we try to reach between number of stories, number of categories and so on.)

Kaethel
Kerth Coordinator

That is a great idea! I like writing reviews, so I might just do 12 threads--one for each month's stories--with reviews (after I refresh my memory of what the stories were about, that is).

Wow, lots of buzz...

I personally like the idea of recommendation lists. We sort of stopped having them a few years back -- I think they were casualties of the fandom split that was in process for two (agonizing) years. There were two sides, and if someone from Side A had a list that failed to include stories by someone on Side B, when there was already bad feelings in the mix, it tended to provoke fights. Heck, if someone from Side A said something nice about a story from another Side A writer, all of Side B would rise up in indignation at the unfairness of it all. That's been years ago, though, and I think that particular factor would no longer be a problem.

The "oh no, such-and-so didn't include my story in her list and therefore she obviously thinks I suck" factor, however, might still be around. My tendency is to tell such people to grow up. Maybe she forgot your story, maybe she hasn't read it, or maybe she didn't like it all that much, but please don't assume she thinks it sucks unless she comes out and says it does. It's nice to see your name on lists (and I'll be honest: whenever I see such lists I automatically scan for my name ) but not being mentioned is not the end of the world, either.

I'd rather that if people put my stories on lists, it's because they really like them, not because they're being kind to a has-been or they think I'll sulk if they don't. No pity recs, please.

Now, this is not the same thing as "avoid these stories/authors at all costs" lists, but we've never had those and we wouldn't tolerate them if someone tried it.

I'm all in favor of us being nice to each other, you understand. There's no need to go out of your way to hurt someone, but then if you go too far out of your way *not* to hurt someone, you run into other problems.

I've got this problem in my house, actually -- my daughter loves to sing. God's given her lots of gifts, but singing ain't one of them -- she can't carry a tune in a bucket. But she thinks she's great. Do I tell her she sucks? Nope, never would. But if I let her keep thinking she's a terrific singer, am I just setting her up for a really nasty surprise somewhere down the line when someone else tells her that her singing sucks? False praise can end up being really destructive.

Of course, I'm responsible for her in a way that we aren't responsible for each other, so don't anybody feel compelled to go critique something

I think what I'm trying to say is that I've learned a *lot* about writing in the past ten years. Has there been criticism? Oh my, yes. Did it hurt? Yeah, it did. But this world isn't about me, so I built up a thicker skin and kept going, trying to learn from the negative things people said. Hurt feelings are a part of life, unfortunately, and we need to learn to deal with them.

PJ

Oh, Pam. Maybe not entirely about you, but it exists in a finer form because of you. So it is, sorta, about you.

Hurt feelings are the reason I don't directly answer the "who's your favorite" question in this or any other fandom. I know I'll leave someone out and it *bothers* me that I did it, however unintentional the memory lapse was. Besides, there are so many stories and authors I haven't even read yet that I might be cheating someone by chiming in early.

Just chiming in with some random comments.

Nail on the head. Right there. Granted, I'm not suggesting we run sessions in IRC on "How to Toughen Up," but when you put your work out in the public, you leave the door wide open for the good and the bad. And it is a very. wide. door. :p I base this on the fact that my brochure just got STOMPED on in presentation last month, but my magazine passed with flying colors today.

On Sue's subject of favorites...I really try my best to recommend stories that aren't talked about all the time. And trust me, I have my favorites. There are a few authors on the Archive that I follow like a religion. But the favorites topic just gets old when to me when I see the same names cropping up over and over, (although nothing personal, most of those stories are my favs, too!) But when I look for story recs, I want to find something new to try.

JD

This is definitely true, but I don't think it's quite that simple when it comes to fiction and especially fanfic. None of us get paid to do this (at least, I don't think so; if someone out there's getting paid, how do I get that job? ). Every single story here is a labor of love. For me, at least, that tends to leave my skin a little thinner than a story or paper I write for a class or whatever. Telling me to get a thicker skin is easier said than done .

Not that I expect people to like everything I write, or that I expect to show up on every recommendation list <g>. I just don't think we can dismiss possibly hurt feelings with, "Oh, toughen up."

Oh, of course! I completely agree, and that's why I'll never run those sessions on IRC haha. It just naturally translates over from my career choice, so it happens to be my own personal attitude towards my writing. It's why I'll personally never be offended if I don't make it on the favorites list or the quotes game or something. I just see writing as another form of art, and I expect the good and the bad criticism to come my way. Of course, we're *way* more constructive than the art world, so this is a much happier environment for me to perform in (even if the muse is a bit of a slacker sometimes).

JD
who also wants to cash in if people figure out how to get paid LOL

Talking of the art world, this seems like as good a time as any to say how much I love your avatar, Jen. Been meaning to tell you that for a while, but never seemed to get around to it.

Yvonne

Oh, thank you, that's so nice! It's part of a painting I did in college.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming,
Jen

Wow! I thought it must be part of something by Mondrian.

Yvonne