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THE MERRIWEATHERS ARE COMING! THE MERRIWEATHERS ARE COMING!



ANNOUNCING A NEW WRITING CONTEST FOR 2005: THE MERRIWEATHER AWARDS!





The Merriweather Award is a new contest created by dedicated Lois & Clark Fanfiction lovers. It has been created uniquely for the purpose of judging fanfic on a point system with the highest score receiving top prize. There will also be winners for Second Place, Third Place and Honorable Mention. How cool is that??? If your story wins, bragging rights are yours! You’ll have a certificate AND a place in the Merriweather Hall of Fame!

What makes the Merriweathers so distinctive is its judging system. All effort has been taken to establish a fair competition. Like every authentic writing contest, there is a panel of judges who receive the stories from a gatekeeper who has deleted all references to author identity. Stories are awarded points based on criteria used in other writing contests but adapted for Lois and Clark fanfiction.

Even better, each month will have a new category! Maybe you thought that the alt-universe story you wrote in 2001 was your best work – enter it in the Merriweathers! Stories from 2001 to the present (Kerth winners included) are eligible (this just gets better and better, doesn’t it?).

The Merriweather Committee will begin accepting stories STARTING ON JANUARY 22. This month’s category: WAFFY VIGNETTES! (Everyone’s favorite category!)

So start sorting through your stories and let the Merriweather Committee know where they can find your stories. This is an exciting time in the development of Lois & Clark Fanfiction.

Remember: Lois was nominated for a Merriweather and didn’t win THAT YEAR. Show that you’re a better writer than Lois and get that Merriweather!

You can scope out the website at : http://www.geocities.com/kennychesneycantsing/index.html

Oh, this looks really cool! So you're saying that stories need to be submitted, with a different category of story every month? That's a really interesting and very different approach, and I'm eager to see how it works Do you announce who's on the judging panel, or is that anonymous? I assume there'd be some changes there from month to month... Very cool.

[edit: I'll just go read the website now and find out the answers for myself... ]

PJ
(and Kenny Chesney can so sing! )

I'll admit to being a little confused. Your rules say that you're making every effort to keep the entries anonymous (ie, the gatekeeper knows the title and author, but not the judge). But if stories from 2001 and later are eligible, isn't there a relatively good chance that a judge might have read a story before (and thus recognize it)?

Other than that, this looks like an interesting idea. I'll be curious to follow it over the year.

Kaylle

Very good point, Kaylee. I assume the judges will be FoLC? Wouldn't they recognize stories and authors styles? Or even the Universe the story is set in.

Artemis

Okay, I've read the site, and I have questions.

a) Who's on the Merriweather Committee?
b) Why only stories from 2001 onwards?
c) Will the names of the judges be published before each competition commences?
d) Do stories submitted to the cooking story category need to contain a recipe?

Otherwise, intriguing idea.

Yvonne

Neat idea; I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. I have a few questions (like how stories can be "annoymous" if already-released stories are eligible) but I see others have asked them so I'll just sit tight and wait for your answers.

So WAFFy Vingettes are up first, eh? And according to your website, that means up to 1500 words? I guess I better figure out how many words each of my short stories has, LOL.

Oh, one thing I didn't see asked yet -- what is the deadline for this months' competition? When do we need to get our story titles submitted by?

Kathy

Looks interesting, and from the rules, a lot like other professional and semi-professional writing contests I've entered. <g> Looks like the difference is that for regular writing contests, you might have someone famous judging your stuff. <bg> A friend of mine had Ray Bradbury read one of his stories in a sci-fi writing contest...

Laura

Yeah, I'm not that familiar with RWA contests or anything, but the list of questions seemed like something they would use -- with modifications to adapt it to L&C, of course. Although there's one in there that mentions cliched plot devices, like cowboys, babies, and amnesia. Not many cowboys that I've noticed in L&C fic But I'm sure they'll get that straightened out. I'm looking forward to sending in a story and see how it works through the system...

PJ

Sorry - got another question. How are the judges selected? Can one apply to become a judge? Can archive GEs be judges, even if they've GE'd the story they're judging? Can beta-readers be judges?

Okay, that was several questions. One subject, mind you <g>.

Edit: got another question. The website has a nomination form, yet the rules say that entrants must submit their own stories; no-one else can submit stories on another's behalf. Maybe you've just made a slip - surely it should be an "entry form"?

Yvonne

I admit I was disappointed at first that this isn't the same as the original Merriweathers that were first proposed a couple of years ago; that was supposed to be strictly for new authors. But this looks like a lot of fun, too!

Instead of a non-competitive kudos-from-your-peers, like the Kerths, these interesting new awards will be an actual contest, and technically judged wholly by writing quality and not by author. I say "technically," because as a few others here mentioned, I don't quite understand how a regular reader of LnC fic will fail to recognize stories that have been archived over the last few years. Perhaps the Merriweather committee could clarify that?

WAFFy stories? Yawn. I'll sit out the first month and just watch and see how it goes. Let me know when you have an anti-Herb month!

Hazel

Sorry we seem to be nitpicking this to death, but I have another one. I can't e-mail the gatekeeper through my Netscape. I need an e-mail address to put into my Outlook Express and I can't get it off the webpage (no right click allowed).
The favor of response is requested.

Artemis

I, like others, wonder just who the judges are going to be and how we know that it is going to be judged fairly if the stories are already published on the archive and the judges are writers and readers who may be familiar with the story and already have a bias about it and the author. How will the blindness of the stories be assured? I have been a proponent of blind judging, and I want to make sure that the blind judging will actually be blind.

I have a few other questions, some of which have been asked before. I will preface this with the fact that I didn't even realize there were writing contests like this out there.

- Why just stories from the last 3 years?
- I am going to ask again, because it's important, who are the judges, and how can we be assured that it is going to be completely fair. For example, if I said that I wanted to be a judge, would I be considered or are the judges already selected? And when will we know who they are?
- Cooking stories? Just wondering why cooking stories? That seems like a really random category. I can't think of any Lois and Clark stories that even deal with cooking except Annie M's Desperately Seeking Clark. And with Christmas stories, why not Holiday stories of any kind?
- In judging the characters, why would it be important to have anything other than 'in character'? Since this is fanfic, we know the characters, and they should be sympathetic if they are in character.
- Who is the judge of unnecessary dialogue and excessive introspection. One person's excessive and unnecessary could be another person's necessity. That is very subjective and could absolutely be a function of who the judge is. For example, if I were judging, I'd like a lot of introspection, but if someone else was judging, they would want practically no introspection.
- Have there been *any* Lois and Clark stories that have a cowboy involved? I can't recall reading any. So in this case, I don't think a cowboy would be cliched.
- I also don't understand how someone can judge style when style is a matter of personal preference? What is too much internal dialogue? What is unnecessary angst? Why is using adjectives a bad thing?

I really despise subjective grading of any kind. Sorry, I am an engineer and I like formulas . I think these awards might be better if they had exact things they were looking for rather than generalizations like "too much" than can be taken to mean different things by different people.

- Laura

Artemis, I can help you with the email addy:

katrinavannote@yahoo.com

At least, that's what I see when I hover my mouse over the logo.

Yvonne

Hey! The Kerths are a very different sort of competition to this panel-judging idea, but they're definitely competitive! To continue the romance-writing theme, the Merriweathers are trying to approximate private writing competitions, whereas the Kerths are individual readers deciding whether or not to buy a book. Both important, in different ways

PJ

I came up with another couple of questions. (Really I'm trying to avoid doing my schoolwork <g>)

What's a submission cycle? And is there going to be a finalized list of categories so authors know when they should plan on submitting their story? I mean, if story X could be submitted in three or four categories, the author might want to decide which categories s/he has the best chance in and only submit to those.

Also, looking at your scoring sheets, judging each story is going to be incredibly time-intensive, especially for longer pieces. Is each judge expected to read every story in a category? Or, if not, are scores from different judges going to be normalized somehow to allow for different judges' biases?

Kaylle

Pam protested:
Guess I wasn't clear, Pam. The Kerth *voting* is competitive, but the nominations aren't! Noms are submitted in vast numbers, simply because FoLCs liked what they read. I contrast this with the idea of specifically submitting a story for the purpose of winning a contest -- that's competitive from Day 1.

And LOL at your comparison -- I don't read romance novels and have no info regarding any romance contests, which might be why I'm displaying my ignorance here.

That, by the way, is why I've always been more interested in the noms for the Kerths than the actual wins. The latter is a matter of competition with other fics, but the former is recognition that the story was *good*, on its own merits.

Thanks, Yvonne. I got it.

Artemis

Sorry for the delay in getting back to answer questions---computer problems.

To answer the question "how will thejudges NOT recognize certain fan fic the answer is some writers have definite styles and some do not. However, the STORIES are judged, not the writers. Also by submitting stories that are several years old, some of the judges may or may not have ssen the stories before or may have forgotten who wrote them. Some stories might be recognizable, but that was anticipated, hence the comprehensive score sheet. It is the story's structure that is being judged, not the auther.

All the judges are FoLCs. This was done to ensure familarity with the characters and universes.

The judges were selected by the Merriweather Committee. Names were proposed and voted on and the people were then approached about being a judge. Yes, BRs and GEs can be judges.

The judges are anyonymous to avoid any e-mails to them regarding their participation or judging of a story. It takes the pressure off them to be partial to one author or a particular story. They can participate knowing their opinions and tallies are confidential.

Ooops, forgot to add something.

Each judge will see the story BUT the judges will not see each other's score sheets. Therefore a score from one judge cannot influence the score of another. Also each judge understands taht they are judging a story, NOT a story by a particular author. Even if they recognize the story they are to judge the story according to the scoresheet, not how they feel about the author. Every effort has been made to make this competition as fair as possible.

I look forward to receiving your stories

kennychesneycantsing@yahoo.com
(sorry about offending the Kenny Chesney fan. LOL)

Thanks for replying, Katrinalee.

I have a couple of questions.
Will the judges change for each category?
Are there any GEs on the panel for the current category?
Can you apply to be a judge?

Unfortunately I have a major problem with the fact that the judges are anonymous. For any competition I enter I want to know who will be appraising my work and what credentials they have. Surely a rule could be added that no entrant should email a judge. To me secrecy in competitions means mistrust.

Tricia

New awards, huh? Cool! Looks interesting.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I, too, am uncomfortable with a panel of anonymous judges chosen by an anonymous committee.

I'd also be interested to know more about how the judges were selected and what their qualifications are. The Kerths are based on how well stories strike the readers in general, but since the Merriweathers are based on judges' scores, the judges' credentials are important.

Speaking of the Kerths, I feel I should point out something from the front page of the Merriweather site:

I'm not sure if you realize this, but the wording, (to me, at least) seems to be insulting. For example, having those two sentences so closely together makes it look like you're claiming the Kerths are unjust.

Moving on... I wonder if you can clarify the submissions process. So far, it looks like only web-accessible stories can be submitted (the form requires the story URL). Is that correct? Does that mean, then, that if an author has a new story, but does not have or know how to use webspace, then the story cannot be submitted?

... Oh, never mind. Looking more closely, I see that you can email submissions, too. That note is a relatively small part of the page. Did anyone else miss it?

I do still have a minor technical concern about the webform. It currently says "Nominate" and there doesn't appear to be any ID verification method. So, a confused FoLC could send in a "nomination" with the author's public email address (required on every archive submission), without the author knowing. Or is that allowed? If not, it might be easier and safer to just have all submissions be by email. Either that, or require an email confirmation of all submissions. Just a thought.

Speaking of things to clarify, I've been reading the rules for short story scoring. A few of them seemed confusing to me.

I didn't understand this one at all. It seemed like two seperate items to me. Does each character have a distinct voice, and are there a lot of misspellings and other errors? I didn't see the connection.

A kind FoLC explained that it refers to the use of colloquialisms in dialogue to help distinguish characters. "I ain't gots no dough," for example. Is that correct?

I think I understand this one, but it took me a long time to sort out all the clauses.

Again, this one took me a little while to sort out. I think I understand it now, but the language was confusing to me.

I realize you're just starting out and still getting things organized, but I think it would help if you could clarify these items.

Back to more weighty matters, I'm concerned about the timeframe. As I understand it, any individual judge will have to read an unknown number (possibly hundreds) of stories, grade each individual one on multiple levels, and return the scores within a single month. Depending on the number of judges and the way things are set up, one or more judges may have to do this with different stories in different categories every month! It seems like an awful lot of work, especially considering that the judges are FoLCs -- volunteers who likely have jobs, schoolwork, families, or other commitments. Am I understanding this correctly? Are you sure it's feasible?

Another question... Why anonymous submissions? I understand that anonymity is part of the format of this type of competition, but these competitions, as far as I know, don't generally deal with works which have already been published. Given that the judges are regular readers and that the archive is easily accessible and searchable, is there really a point to submitting anonymously?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but, well, this is all new. I'd like to understand it better, and I'd like to help you work out the kinks before they become glitches. "An ounce of prevention..." and all that.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all comes out! I've already started looking over possible submissions. I'm very interested to see how they'll be scored and how they'll measure up against the rest.

Thanks for your work in putting this together so far, whoever you are!

Paul

Do we really need this?

I agree with Hazel in that the Kerths are more about the nominations and the fact that several of the gentle readers enjoy reading a particular story. While there is a level of competition involved, it's fairly benign.

These 'awards' take on a very different tact. They purport to be unbiased and scored on a rigid criteria. Sorry, the judging is still subjective and is completely dependant on the judges qualifications. I understand the need to keep the identity of the judges anonymus, but it then opens up the question of qualification. Are the judges published authors? Are they Lit. majors?

When you get down to it, this is XYZ's version of a writing contest. No more or less viable than any other.

Tank (who should start a contest whereas the bases for judging is how clever the writer can incorporate a haircut for Lois... oh, wait, we've already done that... sort of )

Sorry, but unless I know the credentials of the people judging my work, I can't place any value on the judgements they make.

Okay, so maybe I don't need to know the judges' names, but if that's the case, then I do need to know who chose them. Who are the Merriweather Committee?

Who did the proposing? Who voted? If the answer is the Merriweather Committee, then I'm back to square one - who are the members of this committee?

Many thanks for the answers so far, but I think we need just a little more detail than you've given so far.

Yvonne

Looking at the response, it has become blatantly obvious to me that none of y'all have entered any real writing contests. <shrug> Anonymous judges and rather anonymous organizers are pretty standard. I recently entered the Creative Loafing contest in which neither was revealed. Thus, the concept of anonymous judges doesn't bother me. Sometimes in professional and semi-professional contests, you find out who read your stories *after* the fact.

It looks to me as if the Merriweather Committee is attempting to create such a contest. And yes, judging is somewhat objective. These things usually are. However, there are literary standards for good writing, and the Merriweathers seem to be trying to uphold them. As someone who will be graduating with a degree in creative writing fiction in a few months and who will soon be a published writer, I understand their motivations. I'm not involved in this, but it does look like a worthwhile endeavor. I don't really have time for fanfiction awards and contests. I'm too busy trying to get through school, physical therapy, and climb the literary magazine ladder...

Laura (who must go do her daily physical therapy now)

Paul, I think I can answer this one:
Authors can only send in their own stories. You cannot send in another author's stories. It's against the rules.
Also, I think it is a single category a month.

Artemis

I've been following this thread with great interest, but this really caught my attention.

Laura, good for you!! Congrats on being published! That is wonderful. Please do let us know when you are. I would so love to read another FOLC's book.

As for your understanding of writing contests due to your credentials, that makes perfect sense. So, I'll just speak for myself. I'm a literary moron. No classes, no contest experience to speak of. I'm assuming there are others in the same boat with me. For the rest of us, some more qualification would no doubt be appreciated.

For instance, I can totally understand anonymous judges in a Creative Loafing contest- that has a huge readership. But in our cozy fandom the chances that authors and judges will 'know' each other seem much greater. Therefore it might be a nice show of good intent for the Merriweather Committee to be a bit more open.

That's my two cents. One other thing, and I've mentioned this before but feel compelled to add because, well, it's a pet issue. I really cringe at the idea of there being a kind of 'formula' for good storytelling. To me, that carries the potential to suck the creativity right out of writing and to smother the unique voice.


CC

LauraBF wrote:

Well, as you all know, I'm NOT a writer, so this doesn't affect me directly and I won't be submitting any stories. And perhaps this is the way that writing contests work - I don't know.

But out in the "real" world, where these anonymous judges are reading a story submission, they don't know anything about the person who has submitted the story. I would guess that there is NEVER any personal connection between a judge and an entrant.

Here, however, the judges are all FOLCs. And from what I've seen on both message boards over the past four years of being involved on the periphery of this fandom - there are definite "schisms" and probably a lot of unresolved feelings out there.

Now, say Judge I were to recognize Story X submitted by Entrant 5 as something they had read 2 years ago. And Judge I has "issues" with Entrant 5. I realize there is a scoring sheet with specific criteria but, as Tank pointed out, the judging of how the story fits these criteria is still somewhat subjective. Despite Judge I's attempts, he/she could still let some of his/her feelings about Entrant 5 seep into the judging. And even though it would only be one judge's score out of however many there are on the panel, it could still skew the final score.

This scenario presumably couldn't happen in a "real-life" writing contest. It would also be harder with submissions of brand-new stories only, although there is still a question of recognizing an author's "style".

So I would think that people's concerns are valid under these circumstances.

Kathy

Thanks, CC. It's not a book... yet. I'm trying to break into literary fiction and that's a lot harder to get published in than genre. The editor of the GSU Review is going to publish at least one of my short stories in the Spring Edition, two if he has the space. He's not sure if he'll have it yet. <G> Next, I'm trying for Five Points magazine because a lot of book agents do their shopping for new writers there.

Truthfully, I still don't see the problem. I know *I* haven't read every LNC story since 2001, and I certainly don't remember who wrote what. After all, there are hundreds of stories published every year, and nobody can *possibly* remember everything. It's also possible that someone might write something entirely new for the contest, too.

When it all comes down to it, it's just a contest. Not that important in the long run. <g> It's not like first prize is a book deal or something... it's just a certificate and a cute little graphic.

Laura

Laura, I applaud your ambition and enthusiasm in writing! But the experience of entering "real writing contests" is not a requirement for questioning these new awards, is it?

As KathyM points out, anonymous judges and organizers are just fine in professional contests, in which the contestants are *also* anonymous. This is not the case in FoLCdom, which is a small pool of enthusiasts sharing a common love for a wonderful show. The Merriweathers won't be professional, or even semi-professional -- they'll be an amateur labor of love. (And speaking from experience, may I say how much time and luck I wish the committee, and my appreciation of how much time they've already spent?)

Katrinalee answered some questions regarding avoidance of author bias, and added: Well, speaking for my own experiences as a FoLC reader... I have a much greater retention of older stories than I do of newer ones. I have only a vague memory of fics archived in the last three years or so, but I remember the older stories in much more detail! It doesn't help much to see that "they are to judge the story according to the scoresheet" rather than how they feel about the author, because -- well, just because someone's *supposed* to do something doesn't always mean it's possible to do so!

I can understand the desire to keep the specific judges of a specific category anonymous, but I wonder if the Merriweather Committee would be willing to reveal the list of *all* the judges -- that is, to let curious FoLCs know exactly who is part of the Merriweather Awards project, without knowing exactly who is looking at which story of which month's category.

LauraBF indicates (I won't quote, because it's snippets from here and there in her post) that now that she's on her way towards getting published, she doesn't think amateur contests and awards are that important. I admit I'm approaching it from the opposite direction because I had something like two dozen books or articles published before I even *heard* of LnC. The closest I've ever come to something like what Laura describes was an anthology composed entirely of anecdotes/short stories, written by women who submitted their entires to the publisher for that specific work. I think I was paid something like $75 for my article, plus a free copy of the book -- it was nearly fifteen years ago, so I don't remember all the details. :rolleyes:

But *this* professional author thinks the Kerths are wonderful -- and, by extension, the Merriweathers, if the wrinkles and questions get ironed out and the awards prove a success. I'm a part of FoLCdom because I enjoy the company -- and the opportunity to write (and read!) without mentally linking the keyboard to my grocery bill. So, if the Kerths (and Merriweathers) are a way of expressing my appreciation for this delightful fandom, why not go for it?

Yes, it's true that these amateur awards and competitions are "not that important in the long run" -- but if so much time and effort is being devoted to them, why in the world shouldn't they be done right?

CC commented: I don't think the formula is for storytelling, CC, as much as it is for structure. e.e. cummings aside, good writing does require structure: good use of dialogue, of paragraphing, of spelling and grammar, of setting the mood and representing the characters. But the best formulaic writing in the world will be boring as tears without the unique creativity that we all enjoy from our wonderful authors.

One last point: Tank wondered: Well, obviously the Merriweather people think we do. As long as there's no insinuations or deprecations regarding Kerths vs. Merriweathers -- and despite Paul's anxieties, I'm optimistic enough to hope that this isn't the case -- why not? After all, we all want to support and encourage our authors... especially if it means we'll get more fics!

Hazel, apologizing for the megillah

LOL! How very true, Laura. I think it's inevitable though that if you organise this kind of event - in fact, any event - people will want to know details. Ask K-Comm. It's not that they're taking the whole deal too seriously, it's that they're interested and curious and excited about this new venture and want to know more about how it all works and fits together. Which is surely what any organiser wants? A response from the core group they're hoping to attract support from and a 'Tell us more!"

I think it's a fun new venture, although I'm a little dubious on the logistics of the details. Whether they are tweaked or not will be up to the MC and how much participation they're aiming for. But I wish it all success and good luck to all who participate.


LabRat

Oh, I'll be entering. I'm always open to feedback, and this looks like an opportunity to get specific feedback of where I personally can improve as a writer. <g> One thing about being a writing major, they don't leave you many illusions about your failings as a writer...


Laura

PS: As to the other Laura's introspection issue: one of my friends had a thirty page story for senior seminar composed of introspection and sitting on a plane. He flunked. The universal standards of good writing call for a balance of introspection, narrative, dialogue, and action... Just some food for thought. I have no idea how much introspection the Merriweather judges will think is too much. <shrug>

PPS: Might I suggest Strunk and White's The Elements of Style? It's the writing handbook that every writer should own...

One thing I haven't seen answered is when the submission deadline is. Since January is WAFFy Vignette month, do we need to get our stories submitted by January 31? Or is the judging supposed to be completed by then? Is there a a timeframe for how much time will elapse between the submission deadline and the announcement of the winners?

Oh, and will each individual author receive a copy of all the judging sheets, so he/she can review the comments and know where the problems/successes were in the story?

Kathy

Ah, the "introspection" issue raises its head again...

Laura, I don't know how many readers/writers who frequent the message boards have taken writing classes beyond what was required in high school. I, for one, haven't, but even I know that as you reminded us.

And as I believe has been mentioned during other discussions, it is undeniable that some of the stories in our fandom are weighted more heavily on the introspection side than is "accepted" by the standards taught in school. Does that automatically make them bad stories?

It is an established fact that in the L&C fandom, there are writers who love introspection. There are also many readers who love it as well, otherwise some of these writers' stories would not be as popular as they are. I happen to love it, although I will admit that occasionally there are times when my eyes glaze over a bit, and I feel that perhaps "less is more" would have been a bit better in this case.

There are also respected writers who use very little introspection, as well as readers who much prefer that.

Both POVs should be respected, as everyone has different tastes.

I remember studying books in school - admittedly this was high school English, so perhaps I was too young to know any better - that I didn't enjoy at all, and these were considered "great pieces of literature". They weren't to my tastes, but obviously *someone* considers them great. Would they all line up well under the "universal standards"? How would some of them fare being judged by the criteria listed on the scoring sheet? Perhaps not all that well...

And in a vignette, for example, are you still expected to have the balance of all the elements mentioned earlier? I would think it would be a tough job to fit that all in in so few words, but I'm no writer...

Kathy

Like everyone else, I'm intrigued by this completely different approach to judging fanfic awards!

I can see the point of having the judges be anonymous during the actual judging period. But, looking at the scoresheets, and seeing all those prompts for extra information (two aspects that were well done, two aspects that need work, etc.) it seems clear to me that the scoresheets are intended to be sent to the authors after the judging is finished. Will the name of each judge be included with their scoresheets? In other words, will the judges' names be published after each round?

And another point that occurs to me - I know, it's a bit sad that I'm this detail-oriented... The scoresheets say things like "put comments on the back" and "use an extra sheet if necessary". Are physical pieces of paper going to be sent to the entrants after the competition, which implies that snail-mail addresses are needed for each entry? Or is it all going to be done via email (in which case the scoresheet wording probably needs tweaking)?

It all sounds terribly organised - a lot of work has obviously gone into it, and that judging is going to be a real labour of love! Kudos to all of you, whoever you are!

Mere

Well, I've never been to medical school, but I know enough that I'd like to see the diploma of any doctor who I'd ever consider letting practice medicine on me.

I'm with Yvonne in that I cannot place any value on an award given by judges who remain completely anonymous and are appointed by an anonymous committee.

What criteria was used to select the judges? Years of reading fanfic? Professional experience in the real world of publishing? Extensive knowledge of the show itself?

Who voted?

Sure, judges of national contests may remain anonymous, but there is some established basis of competency assured by the contest promoter, whose name is not usually anonymous. If not, that's a contest I'd certainly not bother entering. If Ray Bradbury read and liked my story, I'd be proud. But how do I know that the mysterious un-named committee members haven't voted Larry, Curly and Mo to be the judges?

Like Paul, I find the "mission statement" on the front page of the Merriweather Awards website somewhat insulting and a whole lot presumptuous especially in light of the anonymity of those involved. To purport the idea that anonymous judges appointed by anonymous committee members know better than the readers of LnC fanfic what constitutes a good story is pretty arrogant. Not to mention the fact that this statement implies that because something is popular it is, therefore, not legitimate. A story might actually be popular because it is well-written. Not that this is always the case. Heck, in the history of all literature there have been popular stories that were horribly written when examined from a technical perspective. Even so, to lump all Kerth-winning stories together and declare any accolades given them to be invalid seems a tad bit imperious.

I do hope that, by answering all of the questions put forth in this thread, the Merriweather Committee will start something new and worthwhile. It's always a good thing when a writer can find a new source of constructive critique for their writing, and this has the potential of being such a resource if it can be established that the critiques offered are truly unbiased.


Lynn

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this one. I suppose that makes everyone's Kerths completely worthless. A friend of mine won a RITA award last year (google it if you want to know what it is). That is done anonymously by published authors, some of whom are more published and more in-the-know about writing than others. I doubt seriously that Linda's gonna send her statuette back.

Also, I just got through judging a preliminary round of the Golden Heart (you can google that too). Because RWA is such a close-knit group, it's common to receive an entry that you recognize or from someone you may know. If it's from your absolute bestest buddy, you probably would have trouble being objective (or at least you'd worry that others would question your objectivity). But I got an entry from someone I know casually and felt able to judge it fairly. One section in my judge's packet stood out to me.

I donned my cloak of professionalism and trudged onward.

Congrats Laura on your writing. I entered my first contest last year and had to PAY about $25 or $30 to do it! Heck, this one is free. What a deal! It's been so long since I looked at my own stuff I can't remember what might be eligible to enter and what's not.

Seems to me that in this instance Linda did know the credentials of the judges. She knew that the contest was supported by a reputable group (RWA is national and very well respected by the industry and the RITA Awards are well-known with some history standing behind them), and she knew that the judges were all published writers. I'm sure she would not feel as strongly about keeping her statuette if it had been awarded to her by an anonymous group of committee members who simply assured her that the judges had been chosen and voted for by those same committee members. Likewise, I would hope that Linda would not have been disheartened by a poor review of her story had it been given by a group of anonymous judges who might have known nothing about writing at all.

As for the winners of Kerth Awards, they are all very aware of the credentials of the voters. They know that the voters are those who read and enjoy LnC fanfic and, for the most part, are "experts" in this very specific genre. There are no secrets, and no one individual judge - or voter - is put forth as any kind of expert qualified to offer more than his or her own humble opinion and preferences.

If someone is qualified to judge and award points supposedly based on something deeper than his or her own personal likes and dislikes (I like introspection - this story is good/I hate introspection - this story is bad), seems some sort of credential is in order.

I don't think anyone here expects the committee to put forth a resume on the judges to justify the reason the judges are qualified. But I don't see any reason why there has to be so much secrecy. In fact, based on this comment (and I've edited to make it apply in this fandom):

that judges, if they are truly doing the best they can to be unbiased and fair, should have no problems putting forth their names as one of the judges. Yes, I understand that such a policy might invite unwanted backlash from disgruntled writers who disagree with an evaluation. Perhaps each judge does not have to divulge exactly what he/she said about a particular story, but there is no reason he/she should feel fear in having his/her name put on the list of judges.

There is something to be said for standing up for your opinion, something that an indivual should have no trouble doing if he/she feels it was given honestly and fairly. And if the Merriweather Committee has chosen its judges in the same manner - fairly and with certainty that the judges will remain unbiased - it should suffer no hesitation in divulging its methods for selection as well as the names of the committe members.

Lynn

*rubs hands together*

Let me start out by saying that I'm very glad to see a real, judged writing contest finally being implemented in this fandom. It appears to answer the shortcomings of the Kerth awards in a way that's very logical and straightforward. I've been waiting a long time for something like this to come along, and I can't wait for the competition to begin. That being said, I'd like to offer my humble opinion to several points made in this thread.

Is it enough that the Merriwether committee stated that all the judges were FoLCs, or Fans of Lois and Clark? That's what this group is all about, after all. A FoLC doesn't, by extension, necessarily have to be knowledgable about fic, but I personally don't think that an intimite knowledge of all stories written in the last x years or of the evolution of fanfic is a necessary credential to judge the quality of a story. I also don't personally care of the people doing the judging is a professional writer or not. As long as I can be reasonably assured that the person doing the judging is not a complete doofus, I'll be happy.

I have to disagree with you there. There is no qualification that a Kerth voter be a person who is well versed in fic, or even that they've read the story they're voting for. It could be some anonymous person in cyberspace who stumbled upon the nomination form and voted for the stories with the longest titles, who knows. There's also no assurance or verification that the stories that are the "winners" actually received the most votes. The KComm is perfectly out in the open, but unfortunately the arrival at the results are not. I'd personally feel much better with the opposite situation. And given the amount of grief that people have received in ficdom in recent years for voicing unpopular or independent thought, I don't blame the committee for keeping themselves under wraps. If the don't want to reveal themselves, then more power to them.

It seems rather cynical and far-fetched to think that an anonymous judge reading an anonymous story, on their own time, somehow has an ulterior motive. I can understand the concerns that a story might be recognized, but IF the story has been read by one voter and IF they remember who wrote it and IF they, for whatever reason, wanted to put the screws to that person (that's a lot of ifs), the other judges would seem to be able to cancel out that scheme.

I congratulate the Merriweather Committee for putting up a website that obviously had a lot of thought put into it. I look forward to throwing my stories into the ring.

AnnN.

Lynn, honey, looks to me as if they already have. And it was only democratic in the organization committee. They've given us a new, lovely set of awards that work like a *real* judged contest. All the griping and screaming that you don't like their methods probably won't make a difference.

<shrug> It's a self-entering contest. If you don't like it, don't submit stories. It's as easy and simple as that. Ignore it if you don't like it. That's what I tend to do with the Kerths, because I think that *they're* unfair and I don't trust them further than I can throw them. (Since my opinion on them is well known, I feel free to express it.)

I send off stories to various contests and never know who the judges will be. There *is* a certain level of trust involved, but until *proven* (at least in my mind) untrustworthy, I'll go ahead and give it a try. Again, it's just a CONTEST and it doesn't really MATTER.

To me, it looks like they're going to provide some lovely constructive criticism. The challenge of entering the contest is can you handle it? I know several poor writers (not all in fandoms--remember, LNC is one of four that I'm in as well as classes) who freak out at the slightest word that their stories aren't perfect. (Usually said writers can't string together a grammatically correct sentence, let alone write a cohearent story.) If you want slavish praise, this obviously isn't a contest for you. But if, like me, you want to learn how to become a better writer, it looks like a good thing to enter.

Laura

I was surprised to see that the Merriweathers were actually being instituted. I'd heard some discussion about it a year ago, but nothing since, so I assumed that the logistics were too difficult to overcome.

However, I thought I'd add some comments based on my experience on the contest circuit this past year.

1. I've never known a judge by name--except one who pretty much panned my entry but had such insightful comments on the review sheet that I sent an email to her through the contest coordinator. To my surprise, she shed her cloak of anonymity and we corresponded until I was very clear on what she was looking for in my entry and how I needed to provide it. And she was right. If I don't correct it, the problem I had could very well keep me from publishing that book.

2. The one piece of information I had about each judge was whether he/she was a published writer in romantic fiction, published in other genres, an unpublished award winner (that would equate to our Kerth winners), or simply an unpublished writer. So perhaps these judges will be identified as award winners, fanfic writers, or fanfic readers.

3. I may be a multiple-Kerth winner in folcdom, but I'm a very little fish (is there something smaller than minnow? ) in the world of aspiring novelists, so when I entered contests, it was never with the expectation of winning. The only thing I was interested in was a critique of my work based on criteria similar to what is being used for the Merriweathers. And it was the quality of the critique that determined whether I thought the judge was any good or not. Generally, the people who scored me the highest tended not to provide much by way of a specific critique. On the other hand, some of the people who scored me lower provided wonderful critiques which have helped me improve my writing. For me, that's the true value of a contest like the Merriweathers.

Because of that, I would recommend that the Merriweather organizers not accept previously published stories. While most of you are concerned about judges recognizing the stories and being too biased in their judging, I think the main issue is that there is no purpose in critiqueing a work that the author has no desire to change or rewrite. Since only one person can win in any month's contest, that would mean all the other entrants who submitted already published work would receive nothing of value for their efforts.

BTW, the way the various RWA chapters manage to keep from overwhelming their judges is by putting a limit on the number of submissions in a particular category: the first 25 or 50 or whatever will be judged. The on-line chapter I belong to also holds an entirely electronic contest. All submissions are sent as email attachments to the contest coordinator who strips off identifying marks from the email and sends the entries to the judges who are identified only by a number. So in my chapter, my chapter-mates are the ones who are judging my work, and there are only 200 of us. The only requirement is that judges not judge a category that they have entered or judge an entry from one of their critique partners (BRs). From the website, it looks like the Merriweather committee is using the same practice.

Do different judges give different scores? You betcha! Out of 120 points, I might score from 91 to 115 (that's 76% to 96%), and I've heard of much wider ranges. I might have one judge who says I have a real storyteller's voice and another who says my writing is so bland that she can't identify my voice at all. One can't wait to see the book in print while another recommends beginning writing courses.

It's an entirely different kind of contest than the Kerths. Despite the obvious competition from using performance-based scoring, this kind of contest is less about who wrote the story that the most people liked best than about discovering what works in your writing and what might help you write a stronger story. If that's the kind of information you would like to have, then the Merriweathers are for you. Otherwise, don't worry about it and stick with the Kerths.

I think Sheila has solved the problem for me. I think my main concern - the reason I felt it important to know who the judges are - is because I'm finding it hard to understand how a judge can unbiasly (unbiasedly? is that a word?) judge a story that already has some history behind it. It just seems an almost impossible task to maintain a mutual anonymity, where the writer is anonymous to the judge and vice versa, if the story being submitted is one that has been in the archives or has been posted in the MBs or has even, perhaps, won a Kerth. Kind of like William Shakespeare entering "Romeo and Juliet" in a writing contest and expecting all of the judges to have never heard of it before. Not that I'm comparing anything in this fandom to Shakespeare, LOL! Just that some stories are well known enough that it would be impossible to keep the writer anonymous.

Sheila's idea makes sense, though. If a writer submits a new story, one that has never been posted, then the writer truly can maintain anonymity and be assured that the judges are evaluating his or her story fairly, without any prior prejudices. It would remove a lot of my doubt about the judges if I truly knew that the judges had no idea who I was and that they were judging my story 100% on its merits, not on how they might feel about me personally or what they've thought about my previous stories. And I would highly value any constructive criticism as well, knowing that it was given honestly and fairly.

Good idea, Sheila!

Lynn

Was it ever answered as to why only stories after 2001 are elegible?

Makes me more curious about this restriction of anything prior to 2001. Makes me feel excluded, since the majority of stories that I've written were prior to 2001. I may not submit anything anyway, but I'm sure there are others that might feel excluded as well.

Another point...

Reading this thread has done nothing but upset me, so I may not return... even to find the answer to my question. What I see:

A FoLC has a new and exciting idea, which, I'd have no problem with, if not for the slights towards others. I don't see the need for "my toy is better because" type behavior, but that's what I see... and it saddens me that some people are being rude and condescending towards others whom are simply trying to understand the whole contest better. I think it'd be naive at this point to say "can't we all just get along?" but, really, can't we at least be civil and courteous?

I can't help but feel that this contest was designed specifically to upset people, but even as I type it, I know that it's a useless and potentially hurtful assumption so I'm sorry. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Just thought it should be known that *my* feelings have been hurt simply by reading people's attitudes towards others.

I have other opinions, which I'm going to keep to myself... for now.

Sara

I think it depends on what you're looking for. This is such a great playground and some of us are here for exactly that- just fun and nothing more serious or "real."

Others are looking to hone their craft and to stretch fanfic writing into other directions.

(Btw, *love* that you're writing a book, Sheila. I would buy it!)

Therefore it makes sense that different awards would eventually be the result.

I confess that I fall somewhere in between writing for the pure joy of it and sometimes wondering if I should try for more than being the local playwright to a hugely untalented cast of college students whose pronunciation makes me weep.

But I digress. For those who are looking for a grade on their writing outside of reader responses, the Merriweathers are for you. For those who aren't, then not so much.

I do wish for less secrecy. That seems to be a sticking point and I think a list of judges- and nothing that tells specifically who will judge what category- would be great gesture. A show of good faith that would go a long way towards getting the ball rolling.

And I'd love to see a schedule of what categories will be judged each month.

Lastly, Sara raises a good point about feeling excluded because most of her work was before 2001. Why not throw it open to any story a writer would like to have critiqued no matter the date?

Thus concludes my two cents, honeys.

CC

OK, I *know* that I should keep quiet here, but I just can't. If one of the mods chooses to delete this post because I am straying OT into the Kerths, I'll understand.

AnnN writes: As you may remember from the rather heated debate on the fic list last year, and the concern of verification of the results, I offered to serve as an independent vote tabulator. This fact was publicized. Erin and I independently, with no collusion, arrived at the same results.

Obviously a second vote-counter is insufficient verification for you. Is it just not enough people, or is it that you don't trust me any more than Erin? How many would you like? Three? Four? Twenty? I know that you want all the numbers released publicly, but that isn't happening. And even if it were, I suspect that you might question that, and demand that all of the ballots be mailed to you, so that you could count them yourself.

Kathy

This has been a really interesting discussion, but I think we might have reached a familiar stalemate here. In the end, the Merriweather Committee will run their awards in their own way; they're the ones putting the work into it, so they get to set the rules. Questions and concerns have been aired, and it's up to the M-Com to decide how/if to respond.

On the flip side, individual authors can decide if they'd like to participate in the Merriweathers, the Kerths, both, or neither. This is *not* a competition between the Kerths and Merriweathers; that would be comparing apples to oranges -- tempting, perhaps, but ultimately fruitless.

I personally think it's great to have such a different approach for the Merriweathers (variety being the spice of life and all that), and wish them well.

PJ

Sheila, for the record, this is *not* the same thing as the original proposal for the Merriweathers, which was intended to be specifically for new authors. In the topic on the other mbs, Zoomway emphasizes this point. The Merriweathers are a reasonable enough name for any FoLC award, since the Kerths are already taken!

Marilyn, a quick question for you: I didn't google for info but could I ask how you knew it was your friend's entry? Doesn't the gatekeeper remove the author's name and title from the story before the judges get them? I ask about this because the gatekeeper concept seriously intrigues me. We had a teacher who used to assign numbers to us so she could judge our essays without prejudging them by their authors; I always thought she must have recognized our handwriting and that it was moot, but computers don't have such distinctive fonts available! But I agree with Sheila that the Merriweathers should be approached as a chance to have your work objectively judged, and your experience, Marilyn, seems to negate that.

I'd started to write something else and decided it would be wiser not to do so. :rolleyes: I will merely say, instead, that Sheila's suggestion that the Merriweathers consider only new fics sounds like a wonderful idea to me. It will solve any nagging doubts regarding the difficulty to judges in reading stories that they might identify, since FoLCdom has sadly been partly polarized and some might feel anxious at not knowing who's involved. It will also allow the Merriweather Committee to preserve the anonymity that they seem to feel is so important, without any implications of unfair play.

Of course, Sheila and Lynn and I aren't part of the M-Com, and it's up to Katrinalee to make that decision. It's been two days since her last post here, and we don't even know if she's revisited this thread at all. I hope she does come back and clarify some of the questions that have been asked here.

Argh. Wrote one last thing and decided to delete that too. Self-control is a wonderful thing.

Hazel

Puns R Us. Nice one, Pam!

LabRat (still chuckling)

In a perfect world, this would sound like an ideal situation. Unfortunately, it probably won't work in this instance and would end up being a lose-lose situation for both the author and the various awards offered.

Most authors, when writing a story, are generally eager to get their opus out onto the various boards or to the archive, and have never had any reason to NOT post their stories somewhere. Indeed, one of the qualifications to be eligible for the Kerth awards, which up until this point were the only awards offered, were to have the story posted somewhere. If the Merriwether awards were to be restricted to stories that have never been published anywhere, then they would be limiting themselves to the scraps left on peoples' hard drives, or to stories that could be whipped up in the future. They would also be putting themselves in direct competition with the Kerths - to post a story or not would depend on what set of awards that the author would rather submit to. I think both the Merriweather Committee and the KComm would want to avoid such conflicts.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that complete anonymity of the stories isn't necessarily a must, especially when the entrants are demanding less than complete anonymity of the people judging them. It could be that a judge reads a story and says to themself, "yeah, I think I've read this before." Would that type of casual familiarity color their judging of, say, the characterization of the story? Would it change the physical mechanics of how the story was written? There are stories out there that could be considered very recognizable or unique, but again, how does recognition of the story affect how its put together? If a story is one that the judges have discussed with each other outside the awards, perhaps the judges involved should either disqualify themselves or disqualify the story. Just a thought.

AnnN.

How strict are the word count guidelines? If a vignette strays over the 1,500 word limit, will it be disqualified? Or will it just have points deducted from the total score? Is there some room for movement?

Thanks,

Lynn

Not in the Golden Heart. It's up to the individual author whether he/she wants to put his/her name on the entry. Of the 8 entries I judged, 3 had a name and 5 didn't. And as luck would have it, I am acquainted with one of the women who put her name on her entry. We're not bosom buddies; merely acquainted.

On the issue of judging previously-completed vs. brand-new work, I agree with AnnN; it seems very unlikely to me that someone would write any story longer than a vignette only to hold it in order to send it to the Merriweathers before it goes "public." But I think that can effectively be handled by the individual authors. Since this is a contest that you have to submit things to, authors have total control over what stories, if any, they send in. Those who feel comfortable sending in previously-published stories can do so; those who don't, won't.

This is where, btw, it might come in handy to have a schedule of what categories are going to be handled in which month. If I'm writing a revelation story, and I see they'll be doing revelation stories next month, maybe I'll be motivated to finish it quicker, and possibly even to send it for an award (and anticipated improvements, after getting the critique) before posting it anywhere. Just a thought.

PJ

Pam, that sounds like a reasonable way to use the Merriweathers. Many FoLCs already complete their stories before posting so they don't frustrate or cheat readers who are anxiously waiting for the next part. But with a finished story, the writer could use the two contests to make the best story. The writer could submit it to the Merriweathers to get a solid critique from several judges. After evaluating the comments and making any changes that seem to strengthen the story, the writer could post it so it would be eligible for the Kerths.

As a worst case scenario, it would be like having a reader service provide a free critique before submitting the work for "publication" on the archive. And in the best case, it could mean two awards--a Merriweather (which would be like getting 5 star reviews from all the critics) and a Kerth (which would be like making the NY Times bestseller list)!

Oh, Katrinalee... where are you?

Looks like the anonymnity questions have been pretty well hashed-out (for the record, I doubt anyone was worried about their work being recognized by a casual acquaintance; you may not know this, but a few short years ago, there were some pretty angry people flaming each other over various issues, including how much introspection to use in any given story. Those wounds aren't quite healed yet, so we're cautious to avoid repeating the quarrel.)

Apart from that, though, there were some other questions, too. Maybe you've decided to leave those unaddressed, but it seems more likely to me that they've gotten lost amidst the other discussion. So I took the liberty of going through the thread and listing them here. I figure it might be easier to answer, this way.

1. Why only stories from 2001 onwards?

2. Do stories submitted to the cooking story category need to contain a recipe?

3. What is the deadline for this months' competition? When do we need to get our story titles submitted by?

4. What's a submission cycle? And is there going to be a finalized list of categories so authors know when they should plan on submitting their story? I mean, if story X could be submitted in three or four categories, the author might want to decide which categories s/he has the best chance in and only submit to those.

5. Is each judge expected to read every story in a category? Or, if not, are scores from different judges going to be normalized somehow to allow for different judges' biases?

6. Will the judges change for each category?

7. Are there any GEs on the panel for the current category?

8. Can you apply to be a judge?

9. Will each individual author receive a copy of all the judging sheets, so he/she can review the comments and know where the problems/successes were in the story?

10. How strict are the word count guidelines? If a vignette strays over the 1,500 word limit, will it be disqualified? Or will it just have points deducted from the total score? Is there some room for movement?

I understand these things can take a little thought. Speaking as a K-Com member, I'm quite certain that at least some of those questions were unexpected, but that's the fun of interacting with all these empowered FOLCs. They're ornery little critters!

PJ

Hello again. I am sooo sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I am a full time wife, full time mother, full time college student with a part-time job and a computer that has developed a non-nocturnal problem---it refuses to connect to the Internet after dark. I am waiting on my computer guru to help me out, but in the meantime I will try and answer everyone's questions. Here we go.

1. Why only stories from 2001 onwards?

The Merriweather Committee is in the process of
reconsidering this rule and opening it up to all
stories of any year. Since a lot of people have
asked about this, the rule will probably be
changed.
Stay tuned.

2. Do stories submitted to the cooking story
category need to contain a recipe?

No. But if it's a cooking story, there has to
be something in the story that identifies it as
a cooking story.

3. What is the deadline for this months'
competition? When do we need to get our story
titles submitted by?

Entries will be taken from Saturday, January 2,
to midnight Saturday, February 5.

4. What's a submission cycle? And is there
going to be a finalized list of categories so
authors know when they should plan on
submitting their story? I mean, if story X
could be submitted in three or four
categories, the author might want to decide
which categories s/he has the best chance in
and only submit to those.

A submission cycle is how many times that
category appears per year. If Revelation
stories are judged twice a year, the same story
can only appear one time per year in that
category. That way, if an author has 4 or 5
revelation stories but can only submit two
stories in that category, they have another
chance to submit other stories later on.

Yes, there will be a list of categories that
will be offered. It will be posted very soon.


5. Is each judge expected to read every story
in a category? Or, if not, are scores from
different judges going to be normalized
somehow to allow for different judges' biases?


It is expected of each judge to read each
story. There is a panel of several judges in
order to achieve balance and a fair score for
each story. If one judge scores a story very
low, another scores it very high, and the rest
of the judges score it high, then the low score
is a factor but not THE deciding factor in the
overall score.

6. Will the judges change for each category?

It is expected that there will be some
fluctuation of judges.

7. Are there any GEs on the panel for the
current category?

I don't know. I only know their names, not if
they are GEs or not.

8. Can you apply to be a judge?

To my knowledge, no. I will ask the
Merriweather Committee about this if enough
people want to be judges. (A question to
everyone here -- does being a judge sound like
something you'd like to do and why?)

9. Will each individual author receive a copy
of all the judging sheets, so he/she can review
the comments and know where the
problems/successes were
in the story?

Absolutely!


10. How strict are the word count guidelines?
If a vignette strays over the 1,500 word limit,
will it be disqualified? Or will it just have
points deducted from the total score? Is there
some room for movement?

I know this is under discussion and I'll get
back to you on it as soon as possible. The
Merriweather Committee doesn't want to reject
any story if at all possible. They believe
that if the author takes the time to submit
their story, it deserves to be accepted and
judged in a professional mannner.

The Merriweather Committee did ask me to make
this announcement: There will be no
submissions accepted during March out of
deference to the Kerth Awards.

Hope this clears a few things up. I'll be back
to check on things tomorrow.

Hi Katrinalee:
Thanks for getting back. Sorry you've had so much trouble. I think this is a typo:
Since that day is long gone, I assume you mean your original submission date of January 22 (this Saturday).
1,500 words is a very long Vignette (i.e. a piece with no plot).
regards
Artemis

Well, I'd have to disagree with you there. Maybe it's just me, but getting a story (even with no plot whatsoever) down to 1,500 words is proving to be a challenge.

Thanks, Katrina, your answers are very helpful.

Lynn

Thanks, Katrina, for answering our questions.

I agree with Lynn -- 1500 words is a lot shorter than I thought it was! I've gone through all of my stories (nearly 30 of them) and even the ones I consider very short are over 1500 words, and some quite a bit over. I only have two that fell under that size; the one that was almost exactly 1500 is the one I would consider submitting. (The other was 850-ish words, but was more a humorous challenge response than a "real story".)

Oh, and just in case anyone was wondering, at least using my stories as a guide, 1500 words is in the 8-9K range, or what the Kerths call "Super Short".

Kathy

You gals are right. I don't know what I was reading when I went to "properties" on one of my stories. Anyway, 30K is about 3,000 words.
Sorry about that, but now I'll have to revamp my plan.

Artemis

I’ve been reading all these posts with interest and the issue of the judges’ anonymity keeps popping up. I have mixed feelings on this because I’ve now been on both sides of the issue. I honestly believe that my anonymity as a contest judge allowed me to be honest (no less diplomatic, but honest) without fear of embarrassment or recrimination. I don’t believe that anyone on these boards would act in an unbecoming manner, but having the judges’ names known COULD set the stage for some unwanted emails arguing about a score or comments.

Just MHO.

I think I would be more comfortable with the awards if I knew who was on the committee. I don't necessarily need to know who the judges for the specific stories are, but I do want to know who is behind these awards. Right now, it almost seems like the organizers don't want to reveal themselves. That bothers me because I want to know who is controlling the awards. I understand the rationale of why the judges don't want to reveal themselves, but why doesn't the committee?

- Laura

Thanks for getting back to us, Katrinalee!

What criteria were used by the committee to select the judges? Surely being a GE or BR would be a factor to consider? I believe that the judges need to have had experience in dealing with many different authors and writing styles. Reading alone does not give you that experience. Are the judges familiar with different styles of English – US/UK/Australian/Canadian?

If people have the experience and interest why can’t they apply? This would give writers a great range of opinions and feedback.

Like Laura, I can understand the reasons for the judges to be anonymous. But unfortunately I have major problems with the fact that the committee chooses to be so secretive.

Tricia

Perhaps I can shed some light on the matter. I'm not on the committee. The first I heard of the awards was here, like the rest of you. However, I do have some memories that may help.

Every year for the past few years, a small group of FoLCs has made complaints and accusations about the Kerths. They claim the awards are unfair and that Kcomm is biased and that the quizzes are biased and similar things.

This group includes LauraBF, Cindy Leuch (who, for reasons of her own, and despite publically revealing her boards ID, continues to post here as "Ann Nonymous" and sign her messages "Ann N"), Marilyn (aka SuperMom), and Lote.

I'll skip most of the details of the protests and accusations, as they aren't especially relevant beyond their simple existence.

Now, two years ago, a group of anonymous FoLCs posted to the boards claiming that the Kerth quizzes were biased, focusing on fics written by the quiz writers and their friends, and artificially raising the chances for those stories to win. The new group, calling themselves the "Independant Kerth Committee," proposed to add new quizzes of their own. These quizzes would be fairer and would make up for the bias of the regular quizzes. The IKC had a webpage on geocities which had, on its front page, a message which subtly insulted the Kerth Committee and the Kerth quiz writers, and which stated that the IKC, in contrast, stood for Truth and Justice. (Sadly, this page has since been taken down, and I don't have an archived copy available.)

A couple days later, Cindy and LauraBF began to post a series of 3 quizzes, on behalf of the IKC. These quizzes, ironically, focused heavily on stories written by Cindy, Laura, and a few of their friends. (As it happens, a few of these stories had been included in the other Kerth quizzes. More would probably have been included, but the regular Kerth quizzes, unlike the IKC's quizzes, generally have a rule that only allows one story per author per quiz.)

Last year, as I recall, after more protests, the FoLCs in question decided to give up on the Kerths, and had their stories pulled from the list.

Now, this year, we have the Merriweathers suddenly appearing at the beginning of "Kerth season." The Merriweathers are run by a group of anonymous FoLCs with a strangely familiar geocities webpage (with a different URL). While many FoLCs have had questions about these new awards, a few have simply come in to post in support of them. These few are, as it happens, Cindy, Laura, and Marilyn. (And I see that Lote recently signed up with these boards, but has yet to post.)

For various reasons, those particular FoLCs rarely, if ever, post to these boards. Yet, suddenly, they have all appeared in a single thread, with the message that the Merriweathers look very interesting and that we should stop questioning the need for the committee's anonimity. As it happens, Laura and Marilyn are among the very short list of FoLCs who claim to have any experience with Merriweather-type competitions. In fact, they claim to have extensive experience with these types of competitions.

Also, as it happens, these are the very FoLCs who, in previous years, have had a lot of trouble with the Kerth Committee counting votes in secret. They claim that anything short of full disclosure allows room for shady practices. Strange, then, to see that they now have no problem with an anonymous committee chosing anonymous judges who will score fics entirely at their own discretion.

Now, I don't know about you, but given all this, it seems to me not unlikely that Cindy, Laura, Marilyn, and possibly Lote (who has, by the way, been more active on Zoomway's message boards) are on the Merriweather Committee, are Merriweather judges, or both.

If that's the case, then I have a problem. The Merriweather Committee claims to stand for Truth and Justice. They also claim that their judges are fair and reliable. Yet, if I'm right and things add up the way they seem to, then they've hidden behind a shield of anonymity, snuck around back, and then walked back in the metaphorical front door to support themsleves, sometimes with posts which seem to me to be rude and/or insulting. This, to me, seems rather underhanded.

I've got a story that I'm ready to submit to this month's awards, but before I do, I have to ask myself... If I'm right, and if the committee has done what it seems to have done... Can I actually trust their integrity?

I'm sure this post will, regretfully, be the subject of some heated contravercy. (In fact, I have the nagging feeling that if I'd seriously discussed this post with others before making it, they would have tried to talk me out of it for that very reason.) I feel, though, that it raises important issues which I, personally, would very much like to see addressed. I expect these issues will also be of interest to others.

If I am wrong in any of this, then I sincerely apologize. If anyone can correct me, please do.

Paul

Maybe we can go about this by process of elimination?<g>

I'm not on the committee. Paul, you aren't. So, that's two down.

I read through Paul's post- much of which was unknown to me before now- and I can see how he reached his conclusions. But LauraBF said very early in the thread- had to go back and fish it out: Could she really say that and still be on secret committee? That would throw a big, fat shadow of doubt over MCom, so I tend to think it's very unlikely. Why work so hard on something and then sabotage it with dishonesty? That was information she didn't need to volunteer, yet she did.

I don't have any problem with there being a group of people who advocate a second set of awards. Especially if they were unhappy in the past. Why not? And the Merriweathers look vastly different from the Kerths, so it isn't as if they are competing.

Now, if there was a reason for the secrecy beyond what we've been told- and which I do still have trouble with without factoring in any other possibilites- I would find that worrisome and discouraging.

Too, MCom has obviously worked hard. And since this has become a sticking point and risks unraveling what they've set up, I'd love for them to identify themselves and shut down the speculation. This is something they are obviously proud to support, so why not-at the risk of sounding like at broken record- on a show of faith, tell us who they are?

And while I'm here and stepping in it, I haven't been able to think of a polite way to come right out and ask this without sounding unwelcoming:

Who are you, KatrinaLee??! On your very first post ever, you had an entire website (very detailed, very well done) and a carefully thought out award system. That seems so very, very energetic and ambitious for someone I assume has been a lurker up to now. And I'm not implying anything underhanded, by any means. I just have a burning curiosity. My first post, in contrast, was a tentative 'Hi.'

I'll close this ramble by adding that in the year and 1/2 I've been here, I've never seen anything truly ugly and unkind spring up among us. We have our differences of opinions, of course. How could we not? (Some of you are tragically misinformed on your politics, for example.) But we get along really well. This place is pure fun and escape for me. I'm grateful for it. And don't want any newbies to run for the exits. It has been my experience that this group is too nice to flame each other, even on points of controversy.

CC

Dear Paul,

First of all, accusations piss me off. Might I point out that you haven't talked to me in over two years and that you never knew me well to start with? I've recently been diagnosed with lymphedema (if you want to know what that is, I suggest you google it) and the treatment for it occupies most of my haha spare time. The rest is usually spent preparing for graduation, graduate school, and writing *real* stories for publication. (None of this includes homework time.) Between maintaing a straight A average and everything else, I just don't even have much time to write fanfic anymore. I could never find time to be anymore involved than submitting a few things. <shrug> If you choose to believe that I'm part of this committee, I s'pose I can't stop you. I'm just far too busy for such things.

And no, I don't post here anymore because I don't *read* here anymore. For the most part, I've moved on into other fandoms. However, my startup page is still Zoom's boards so I came over here for once because I figured that the debate would be over here, and I never could resist a good argument. Cindy is one of my best friends--there's a reason you people dubbed us the 'obnoxious duo' a few years back. I think I'd know if she were involved. <g> She likes a good debate as well. As for Marilyn, well, she's been busy working on a novel for publication. When would she have the time to do something as labor-intensive as this?

Keep your theroies to yourself unless you have proof. I've yet to see anyting besides unsubstantiated, unfounded accusations.

pissed off in Atlanta,

Laura

The secrecy thing just isn't working, then, is it? And perhaps MCom was unaware of past grievances, and so didn't anticipate this beng such a problem.

But we're in a vacuum here and naturally starting to make assumptions. Before this goes any further off the cliff, I wonder if *any* members of MCom would be willing to 'out' themselves?

For those of us who really want to participate, it would be most appreciated. And could go a long way in sparing hurt feelings.

Just a suggestion. I think I'm finished meddling.

CC

Knowing about all the past infighting in the fandom, I'm not suprised that the Merriweather Committee wishes to remain anonymous. <shrug> Seems to me that the moment they say who they are and who the judges are, we descend ito factionalism again. Most writing contest committees are anonymous. It's *normal*. If you entered, say, the Agnes Scott Writing Contest, you wouldn't know who organized it *or* who the judges were.

I've read the rules. The Merriweathers are being run like a regular writing contest. I just don't see what the problem is. Seems to me that those who are making it an issue just might not be confident in their skills as writers.

Just MHO,

Laura

Or maybe, they're concerned because they don't know what biases the MCom might be hiding? They might also be cranky to have their writing skills continually disparaged by the Merriweather supporters such as yourself, Laura.

And I do find it highly entertaining to see you guys go from accusing the K-Com of being too secretive to championing a completely anonymous group.

I'll repeat -- even if the Merriweathers are run by people I dislike, I still think it's a great idea to have a different sort of awards/critiquing process. The only concern would be whether the MCom -- whoever they are -- will be able to run things in an unbiased fashion. I hope so. But anonymity means unaccountability, and can be abused.

Btw, Laura, you might want to check with Cindy again; back when she first started posting as Ann Nonymous, you assured us that it couldn't be her, because you were her best friend and would know.

PJ

Another question I had is why the small word limit for vignettes? The two stories I think are my best vignettes are both just over 2000 words, but they are both clearly short stories (<5 pages in Times New Roman size 12).

However, this might be a moot point because I will not submit a story unless I know who is on the Merriweather committee, and I was suspicious of exactly what Paul pointed out. I think it would make a lot of people a lot more comfortable if we knew who was behind these awards.

- Laura

I usually do not posts on threads like these becuase I don't like getting in the middle of the flame wars that have plagued this fandom since long before I was a part of it. This time I feel the need to step in because I am tired of sitting by the sidelines and watching LauraBF, Cindy, and Marilyn dig at the Kerth Committee in various ways. I will second everything that Paul said. I suspected exactly the same thing from the moment Katrinalee first posted, and my suspicions were confirmed when I read through the MComm's website.

The top of the frontpage of their website says:
They basically state that they created these awards because they want truth and justice, as opposed to the Kerth awards, which they do not think are truthful and just. This is exactly the kind of thing that LauraBF, Cindy, and Marilyn have said about the Kerth awards and KComm in the past.

Here is what I suggest.

If the MComm is composed of LauraBF, Cindy, and/or Marilyn, I can only conclude that this is one more way they have come up with to insult the Kerth awards and KComm.

If the Merriweather awards are only going to be a source of controversy and flaming because their purpose is to insult the KComm, I'd rather not have them at all.

If the above is the case, I am pleading with LauraBF, Cindy, and Marilyn to please leave. If you are so unhappy with the Kerth Commitee (many of whom also run these boards) then why come back here to stir up trouble? These boards were created so that the two factions of people who do not get along wouldn't have to be around each other. If you don't like KComm and the people who support them, then don't waste your time and energy being around those people.

If the MComm is not composed of LauraBF, Cindy, and/or Marilyn, I am pleading with you to please state who you are. I guarantee you that it would make a whole lot of us feel a lot better about submitting stories to your judges.

If the MComm is not composed of LauraBF, Cindy, and/or Marilyn and has been completely misunderstood to be a dig at the Kerth awards and KComm, then I wish you well. I hope that your awards are successful in providing helpful feedback to fanfic authors. I will probably even submit a story or two myself.

~Anna

I'm not on the Merriweather Committee. I'm not a judge. I don't even have a personal stake in this (since I have no stories to submit), other than seeing it as another event (therefore potential conflict) in the fandom.

Like some - perhaps many - of you, I've had the same suspicions that Paul voiced. And CC brought up a very good point about katrinalee's entrance onto the scene. It could be a second ID for someone well known in the fandom, yet again it could indeed be someone who has been around (perhaps for years), but hasn't wanted to post on any mbs. I know that I lurked for 2 years before posting for the first time on a fanfic-related subject. And there could easily be people who have been around (IRC or ficlist, perhaps) for a long time but choose not to post on the boards. It is certainly possible that katrinalee has always preferred to remain anonymous until now.

LauraBF, you can be as cranky as you want about this. Paul voiced suspicions that obviously more than one person has had. I had them, and I don't know any of you people personally or have had more contact other than an occasional email. And as I've stated publicly more than once, I've never gone on IRC, so if this subject has been discussed there (as I would assume it has), I've not been *influenced* by it in any way. The coincidences are there. You have angrily come on and stated unequivocally that you are not involved. Fine. I therefore assume that you are not deliberately lying in order to maintain the M-Comm's anonymity, but I would hardly call all these suspicions "unfounded" or without any possible basis.

Since it seems likely that the Merriweather Committee will choose to remain anonymous, I guess you authors out there have two possible choices. To submit or not submit.

But if you have a story ready, why not go for it? You're going to be getting back the comments from the judges - if you feel that one or more opinions are totally skewed or if you disagree with the judgement as a whole, don't submit any other entries. There's no denying that a lot of thought and hard work has gone into this, and steps are being taken to allow for possible bias. They say that they are planning to run a fair and unbiased competition - why not see if they can?

Kathy

Well, the lovely hostility here is reminding me why I all but left the fandom in the first place. I've said more than once that I know for sure that it isn't me--what do you want, it signed in blood?

Yes, I'm supporting the Merriweathers. Why? Because I think it's a damn good idea and I wish I'd thought of it. If you're determined to be offended by what seems to be an innocent little contest, go right on ahead. Leaves more room for the rest of us to win. Now, I'm going to go do my therapy like a good girl so that I might get real shoes to wear in the conceivable future.

Laura

It's occurred to me to point out that Paul's not accusing anyone of anything. Given our history, he thinks he sees a pattern. Given the MCom's anonymity, he wonders if the pattern's true. But he was asking for clarification -- and if this isn't anything to do with old tensions, wouldn't it be better to have that completely cleared up and out of the way?

Heck, even if it *is* a product of past arguments, I'd seriously think about coming clean, telling everyone to deal with it, and then moving on to the awards.

Again, *no one* has done anything wrong, here. I firmly believe that the MCom -- whoever they are -- have every right to run their contest their way. They put in the work; they make the rules. The other half of that bargain is that FOLCs have the right to ask questions. And FOLCs also have the right to think it's a great idea and come to its defense. That doesn't make them committee members.

If enough FOLCs decide to participate, then the Merriweathers will be a smashing success, and a great addition to our fandom. That's what I'm rooting for.

I think a lot of people are willing to give the Merriweathers a chance. And I think there are more who would be willing, if they had a little bit more information. It's totally up to MCom to decide if they want to release that information -- releasing it might widen the pool of participants, but they probably have very legitimate concerns about going public. I know that being on the K-Com has opened me up to a lot of criticism I wouldn't otherwise have had to deal with. I think it's worth it, obviously, since I'm still here, but trust me, I can see how someone else would really really really want to avoid being in that position.

PJ

I want to state, first and foremost, that I do not intend to be hurtful or insulting. I'm just clarifying my viewpoint, because I imagine I'm not alone in it. If I am, feel free to ignore me <g>.

I've been writing my whole life. When I was a very small child, I had a tape recorder to narrate stories into because I couldn't write/type yet. Whatever else I may be, I've always considered myself a writer.

However, I'm not a creative writing major. When I started applying to colleges, I took a good look at myself and decided that it was important to have a skill/career where I thought I could support myself and any family I might have. Given my habit to start a lot of stories and finish very few of them, writing didn't seem like a logical choice.

So I majored in something else. Do I think that makes me less of a writer? Absolutely not. Does it make my opinion on writing less valid? Absolutely not.

Does being published make my opinion more valid? Fine. Been there, done that. But I've met plenty of published authors whose opinions didn't mean much to me, either. At the end of the day, being published just means that you convinced someone who has enough money to put out a publication that your work is worthy of publishing. And hey, there are plenty of people with money whose opinions I don't value <g>.

It's not about being confident in your skills as a writer. I'm pretty confident I can string some words together in a format that's both technically correct and aesthetically pleasing to some audience somewhere <g>. Would I submit my work to an audience I know won't enjoy it? No, because I don't see the point.

And would I like to submit my work to a panel of anonymous judges whose credentials are unknown, who were selected by an anonymous committee who may or may not hate me, so that it could be maliciously taken apart? (Especially fanfic, which is for the most part a labor of love done with no hope of any material gain?) Frankly that sounds painful, and for an activity that's supposed to be fun it doesn't seem worth it. And the way things stand right now, I don't know enough about the Merriweathers to know that's not what I'm doing.

The same thing could be said of the Kerths. At least there I knew who was voting, and I got to vote for myself once in a while. I don't think it's too much to ask that the MComm reveal themselvses. If the writers are supposed to trust their judgment, it seems only fair that some trust be shown in return. We're all supposed to be adults here.

Just my 2 cents,
Kaylle
(No offense intended to those of us who aren't legally adults yet. At any rate, we're all supposed to be mature enough to handle this <g>)

Edited to say...hello.

Lynn

I don't have much to add this time. Pam's latest post said most of what I'd have wanted to say, and probably better than I could have said it.

Briefly, for those interested, I'll say that I am planning to participate in the awards. As has been pointed out, I've nothing to lose by doing so, and if the awards in general are successful, then the fandom will have gained something new. At the worst, I'll have gotten some detailed feedback from careful readers.

Mostly, though, I wanted to extend my sympathies to Laura. As you may know, I've had a long history of medical issues myself. Since early childhood, my immune system has been coming up with ever newer and more creative ways to injure me. I suppose you could say, though, that I've been fortunate.

If not for medications devoloped a mere 50 years or so ago, I'd have been dead before I ever saw my teens. If not for refinements to the treatment regimen governing the use of those medications which were made possible by equipment developed about 25 years later, I'd be well on my way to blindness, major organ failure, and other serious complications.

When I later developed a new disease, it was only a few years before doctors had a name for it (and enough information to diagnose it), and from that point, thanks to modern medical science, new treatments were developed amazingly fast.

Several years later, I developed something new (the particulars of which, unfortunately, still baffle specialists across the country and overseas). I was probably months away from slipping into a coma when a stab in the dark (a medication developed that very year for an only tangentially related disease) miraculously managed to improve my condition. A few months later, I was lucky enough to find a doctor who had heard about a more effective version of the same drug which had been developed overseas. He managed to get me on it months before the FDA gave its final approval. It wasn't enough to let me return to school, but it kept me going. Now, as I slowly become resistent to it, we're trying ever riskier measures. Just yesterday, a doctor told me about a somewhat experimental but very promising possibility based on a serendipitous discovery made within my lifetime which we still don't fully understand. Once again, medical science, advancing ever more rapidly, has developed something in what is, for me, the nick of time.

So, I've been lucky, but it still hasn't been easy. Laura, I sympathize with your plight. I'm not sure how serious your personal condition is right now (from what I've seen here , there seem to be several stages), but I know how difficult it can be to face situations like this. Truly, you have my best wishes in your search for not just a treatment, but a cure.

Paul

Thanks for your good wishes, Paul, but there is no such thing as a cure. It took seven different doctors to disgnose it, many of which told me to do the exact *wrong* things to do to make it better. I've had non-healing, weeping sores for a year and very swollen legs for a year before that. I have lymphedema in both legs below the knee, and my left leg is much worse than my right. They say that I've had it undiagnosed for years until this most recent break out. I will have it for the rest of my life.

Laura

Normally I wouldn't bother posting a response to the paranoid rant posted by Paul, but I dislike having my name dragged through the mud and impuned...AGAIN...by someone spouting theories based on nothing but speculation and hatred, and doing it for seemingly no other reason than to either flame me (and my friends) or trash something that we have stood in favor of.

I am terribly flattered that you think I am one of the Merriweather Committee members. I certainly think a contest such as one they represent is a long time coming. However, between studying for the Professional Engineering exam and other obligations that I have, I would not have time. Not that I expect you to believe my denial, but whether you do or not is not my concern.

That said, I find it sad that you feel the need to try and frame the Merriweather Awards as some kind of conspiracy. It seems to me that the groundwork of the awards has been set, and that a great deal of time and effort has been put into presenting them to FoLCs both here and on Zoom's board. Nothing on that site in any way trashes or impunes any FoLC or their efforts. It seems the great evil of the Merriwether Committee is that they deign to keep themselves anonymous, and given the way that people who dare challenge the status quo around here are treated, I don't blame them.

Let me ask you why you think this is, Paul. Why would I champion the Merriweathers when I've been very vocal about my unhappiness with the Kerth awards? Could it be because I think it's a good idea? And why don't I post here very often? Look at your post and you'll find the answer. Life is much better when you find things that you enjoy, and I frankly don't enjoy hanging around here much.

If you wish to continue to pull my name out of the sky and spout conspiracy theories, be my guest. I'm waiting for you to accuse me of being the second shooter on the grassy knoll. But please don't drag the name of these awards through the mud, especially when you have yet to participate. I, at least, participated in the Kerth Awards for a few years before deciding that I disagreed with their policies.

AnnN.

Basically too much has been said already. I had the Oh-Oh feeling when Katrinalee first posted. I too am suspicious of anonymous people. However, the unknown people have already gone to a lot of work and I see only benefit to me as a writer to enter the proposed contest. I certainly see no risk to myself. Therefore, I propose to give them a chance. I write for fun and enlightenment and if I can get feedback from some judges, so much the better.
I extend my sympathies to both LauraBF and Paul with their health problems. I hope Paul does enter because he is the master of the vignette, IMHO. LauraBF, in spite of her difficulties, is on a very successfull road and I congratulate and applaud her work.
We cannot control what others do, we can only control what we do.
I recommend katrinalee start a new thread when she comes back and I hope the Merriweathers are a success.

Artemis

Making an executive decision here and locking this thread. It's not because anyone did anything wrong, but because I'd like to see the Merriweather Award start over in a more positive light it deserves. So I'll leave that up to Katrina to start a new thread if and when she feels inclined to do so. Until then, back to business as normal.

I thank everyone who posted here for not going too much over the line, though I do know it's been crossed briefly.

Please remember that not every event is for everyone and you are not required to participate. Questions have been asked and they've been answered. If you don't understand something further, please take to private email.

Thank you,