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#146302 01/16/05 08:53 PM
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New awards, huh? Cool! Looks interesting.

Unfortunately, I have to say that I, too, am uncomfortable with a panel of anonymous judges chosen by an anonymous committee.

I'd also be interested to know more about how the judges were selected and what their qualifications are. The Kerths are based on how well stories strike the readers in general, but since the Merriweathers are based on judges' scores, the judges' credentials are important.

Speaking of the Kerths, I feel I should point out something from the front page of the Merriweather site:

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Created as a judged alternative to the Kerths, the Merriweather Awards are based on good writing, not popular opinion. Our mission statement: "Truth and justice sound like good things to stand for."
I'm not sure if you realize this, but the wording, (to me, at least) seems to be insulting. For example, having those two sentences so closely together makes it look like you're claiming the Kerths are unjust.

Moving on... I wonder if you can clarify the submissions process. So far, it looks like only web-accessible stories can be submitted (the form requires the story URL). Is that correct? Does that mean, then, that if an author has a new story, but does not have or know how to use webspace, then the story cannot be submitted?

... Oh, never mind. Looking more closely, I see that you can email submissions, too. That note is a relatively small part of the page. Did anyone else miss it?

I do still have a minor technical concern about the webform. It currently says "Nominate" and there doesn't appear to be any ID verification method. So, a confused FoLC could send in a "nomination" with the author's public email address (required on every archive submission), without the author knowing. Or is that allowed? If not, it might be easier and safer to just have all submissions be by email. Either that, or require an email confirmation of all submissions. Just a thought.

Speaking of things to clarify, I've been reading the rules for short story scoring. A few of them seemed confusing to me.

Quote
2. Does each character have a distinct voice without too frequent resort to misspelled words and other annoyances?
I didn't understand this one at all. It seemed like two seperate items to me. Does each character have a distinct voice, and are there a lot of misspellings and other errors? I didn't see the connection.

A kind FoLC explained that it refers to the use of colloquialisms in dialogue to help distinguish characters. "I ain't gots no dough," for example. Is that correct?

Quote
3. Do the dialogue passages effectively use paragraph length, word choice, placement and type of quote tags, punctuation, vocal idiosyncrasies (like sentence fragments, etc), action, and introspection to create a conversation experience both inside and outside the quotation marks?
I think I understand this one, but it took me a long time to sort out all the clauses.

Quote
3. Do the choices of particular pov characters (rather than another character's pov) for each passage or scene enhance the story, such as by creating suspense, giving a unique perspective on an event, or increasing the level of emotion?
Again, this one took me a little while to sort out. I think I understand it now, but the language was confusing to me.

I realize you're just starting out and still getting things organized, but I think it would help if you could clarify these items.

Back to more weighty matters, I'm concerned about the timeframe. As I understand it, any individual judge will have to read an unknown number (possibly hundreds) of stories, grade each individual one on multiple levels, and return the scores within a single month. Depending on the number of judges and the way things are set up, one or more judges may have to do this with different stories in different categories every month! It seems like an awful lot of work, especially considering that the judges are FoLCs -- volunteers who likely have jobs, schoolwork, families, or other commitments. Am I understanding this correctly? Are you sure it's feasible?

Another question... Why anonymous submissions? I understand that anonymity is part of the format of this type of competition, but these competitions, as far as I know, don't generally deal with works which have already been published. Given that the judges are regular readers and that the archive is easily accessible and searchable, is there really a point to submitting anonymously?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but, well, this is all new. I'd like to understand it better, and I'd like to help you work out the kinks before they become glitches. "An ounce of prevention..." and all that.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all comes out! I've already started looking over possible submissions. I'm very interested to see how they'll be scored and how they'll measure up against the rest.

Thanks for your work in putting this together so far, whoever you are!

Paul


When in doubt, think about penguins. It probably won't help, but at least it'll be fun.
#146303 01/17/05 12:02 AM
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Do we really need this?

I agree with Hazel in that the Kerths are more about the nominations and the fact that several of the gentle readers enjoy reading a particular story. While there is a level of competition involved, it's fairly benign.

These 'awards' take on a very different tact. They purport to be unbiased and scored on a rigid criteria. Sorry, the judging is still subjective and is completely dependant on the judges qualifications. I understand the need to keep the identity of the judges anonymus, but it then opens up the question of qualification. Are the judges published authors? Are they Lit. majors?

When you get down to it, this is XYZ's version of a writing contest. No more or less viable than any other.

Tank (who should start a contest whereas the bases for judging is how clever the writer can incorporate a haircut for Lois... oh, wait, we've already done that... sort of wink )

#146304 01/17/05 02:09 AM
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Sorry, but unless I know the credentials of the people judging my work, I can't place any value on the judgements they make.

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The judges were selected by the Merriweather Committee.
Okay, so maybe I don't need to know the judges' names, but if that's the case, then I do need to know who chose them. Who are the Merriweather Committee?

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Names were proposed and voted on and the people were then approached about being a judge.
Who did the proposing? Who voted? If the answer is the Merriweather Committee, then I'm back to square one - who are the members of this committee?

Many thanks for the answers so far, but I think we need just a little more detail than you've given so far.

Yvonne

#146305 01/17/05 04:09 AM
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Looking at the response, it has become blatantly obvious to me that none of y'all have entered any real writing contests. <shrug> Anonymous judges and rather anonymous organizers are pretty standard. I recently entered the Creative Loafing contest in which neither was revealed. Thus, the concept of anonymous judges doesn't bother me. Sometimes in professional and semi-professional contests, you find out who read your stories *after* the fact.

It looks to me as if the Merriweather Committee is attempting to create such a contest. And yes, judging is somewhat objective. These things usually are. However, there are literary standards for good writing, and the Merriweathers seem to be trying to uphold them. As someone who will be graduating with a degree in creative writing fiction in a few months and who will soon be a published writer, I understand their motivations. I'm not involved in this, but it does look like a worthwhile endeavor. I don't really have time for fanfiction awards and contests. I'm too busy trying to get through school, physical therapy, and climb the literary magazine ladder...

Laura (who must go do her daily physical therapy now)


“Rules only make sense if they are both kept and broken. Breaking the rule is one way of observing it.”
--Thomas Moore

"Keep an open mind, I always say. Drives sensible people mad, I know, but what did we ever get from sensible people? Not poetry or art or music, that's for sure."
--Charles de Lint, Someplace to Be Flying
#146306 01/17/05 04:53 AM
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Paul, I think I can answer this one:
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So, a confused FoLC could send in a "nomination" with the author's public email address (required on every archive submission), without the author knowing.
Authors can only send in their own stories. You cannot send in another author's stories. It's against the rules.
Also, I think it is a single category a month.
cool
Artemis


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Writing history is easy once you've lived it. - Artemis
#146307 01/17/05 05:02 AM
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As someone who will be graduating with a degree in creative writing fiction in a few months and who will soon be a published writer, I understand their motivations.
I've been following this thread with great interest, but this really caught my attention.

Laura, good for you!! Congrats on being published! That is wonderful. Please do let us know when you are. I would so love to read another FOLC's book.

As for your understanding of writing contests due to your credentials, that makes perfect sense. So, I'll just speak for myself. I'm a literary moron. No classes, no contest experience to speak of. I'm assuming there are others in the same boat with me. For the rest of us, some more qualification would no doubt be appreciated.

For instance, I can totally understand anonymous judges in a Creative Loafing contest- that has a huge readership. But in our cozy fandom the chances that authors and judges will 'know' each other seem much greater. Therefore it might be a nice show of good intent for the Merriweather Committee to be a bit more open.

That's my two cents. One other thing, and I've mentioned this before but feel compelled to add because, well, it's a pet issue. I really cringe at the idea of there being a kind of 'formula' for good storytelling. To me, that carries the potential to suck the creativity right out of writing and to smother the unique voice.


CC


You mean we're supposed to have lives?

Oh crap!

~Tank
#146308 01/17/05 05:03 AM
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LauraBF wrote:

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Anonymous judges and rather anonymous organizers are pretty standard. I recently entered the Creative Loafing contest in which neither was revealed. Thus, the concept of anonymous judges doesn't bother me. Sometimes in professional and semi-professional contests, you find out who read your stories *after* the fact.
Well, as you all know, I'm NOT a writer, so this doesn't affect me directly and I won't be submitting any stories. And perhaps this is the way that writing contests work - I don't know.

But out in the "real" world, where these anonymous judges are reading a story submission, they don't know anything about the person who has submitted the story. I would guess that there is NEVER any personal connection between a judge and an entrant.

Here, however, the judges are all FOLCs. And from what I've seen on both message boards over the past four years of being involved on the periphery of this fandom - there are definite "schisms" and probably a lot of unresolved feelings out there.

Now, say Judge I were to recognize Story X submitted by Entrant 5 as something they had read 2 years ago. And Judge I has "issues" with Entrant 5. I realize there is a scoring sheet with specific criteria but, as Tank pointed out, the judging of how the story fits these criteria is still somewhat subjective. Despite Judge I's attempts, he/she could still let some of his/her feelings about Entrant 5 seep into the judging. And even though it would only be one judge's score out of however many there are on the panel, it could still skew the final score.

This scenario presumably couldn't happen in a "real-life" writing contest. It would also be harder with submissions of brand-new stories only, although there is still a question of recognizing an author's "style".

So I would think that people's concerns are valid under these circumstances.

Kathy


"Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter." - Babylon 5
#146309 01/17/05 05:14 AM
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Thanks, CC. It's not a book... yet. I'm trying to break into literary fiction and that's a lot harder to get published in than genre. The editor of the GSU Review is going to publish at least one of my short stories in the Spring Edition, two if he has the space. He's not sure if he'll have it yet. <G> Next, I'm trying for Five Points magazine because a lot of book agents do their shopping for new writers there.

Truthfully, I still don't see the problem. I know *I* haven't read every LNC story since 2001, and I certainly don't remember who wrote what. After all, there are hundreds of stories published every year, and nobody can *possibly* remember everything. It's also possible that someone might write something entirely new for the contest, too.

When it all comes down to it, it's just a contest. Not that important in the long run. <g> It's not like first prize is a book deal or something... it's just a certificate and a cute little graphic.

Laura


“Rules only make sense if they are both kept and broken. Breaking the rule is one way of observing it.”
--Thomas Moore

"Keep an open mind, I always say. Drives sensible people mad, I know, but what did we ever get from sensible people? Not poetry or art or music, that's for sure."
--Charles de Lint, Someplace to Be Flying
#146310 01/17/05 07:18 AM
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Looking at the response, it has become blatantly obvious to me that none of y'all have entered any real writing contests. <shrug> Anonymous judges and rather anonymous organizers are pretty standard. I recently entered the Creative Loafing contest in which neither was revealed. Thus, the concept of anonymous judges doesn't bother me.
Laura, I applaud your ambition and enthusiasm in writing! But the experience of entering "real writing contests" is not a requirement for questioning these new awards, is it?

As KathyM points out, anonymous judges and organizers are just fine in professional contests, in which the contestants are *also* anonymous. This is not the case in FoLCdom, which is a small pool of enthusiasts sharing a common love for a wonderful show. The Merriweathers won't be professional, or even semi-professional -- they'll be an amateur labor of love. (And speaking from experience, may I say how much time and luck I wish the committee, and my appreciation of how much time they've already spent?)

Katrinalee answered some questions regarding avoidance of author bias, and added:
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Even if they recognize the story they are to judge the story according to the scoresheet, not how they feel about the author.
Well, speaking for my own experiences as a FoLC reader... smile I have a much greater retention of older stories than I do of newer ones. I have only a vague memory of fics archived in the last three years or so, but I remember the older stories in much more detail! It doesn't help much to see that "they are to judge the story according to the scoresheet" rather than how they feel about the author, because -- well, just because someone's *supposed* to do something doesn't always mean it's possible to do so!

I can understand the desire to keep the specific judges of a specific category anonymous, but I wonder if the Merriweather Committee would be willing to reveal the list of *all* the judges -- that is, to let curious FoLCs know exactly who is part of the Merriweather Awards project, without knowing exactly who is looking at which story of which month's category.

LauraBF indicates (I won't quote, because it's snippets from here and there in her post) that now that she's on her way towards getting published, she doesn't think amateur contests and awards are that important. I admit I'm approaching it from the opposite direction wink because I had something like two dozen books or articles published before I even *heard* of LnC. The closest I've ever come to something like what Laura describes was an anthology composed entirely of anecdotes/short stories, written by women who submitted their entires to the publisher for that specific work. I think I was paid something like $75 for my article, plus a free copy of the book -- it was nearly fifteen years ago, so I don't remember all the details. :rolleyes:

But *this* professional author thinks the Kerths are wonderful -- and, by extension, the Merriweathers, if the wrinkles and questions get ironed out and the awards prove a success. I'm a part of FoLCdom because I enjoy the company -- and the opportunity to write (and read!) without mentally linking the keyboard to my grocery bill. So, if the Kerths (and Merriweathers) are a way of expressing my appreciation for this delightful fandom, why not go for it?

Yes, it's true that these amateur awards and competitions are "not that important in the long run" -- but if so much time and effort is being devoted to them, why in the world shouldn't they be done right?

CC commented:
Quote
I really cringe at the idea of there being a kind of 'formula' for good storytelling. To me, that carries the potential to suck the creativity right out of writing and to smother the unique voice.
I don't think the formula is for storytelling, CC, as much as it is for structure. e.e. cummings aside, good writing does require structure: good use of dialogue, of paragraphing, of spelling and grammar, of setting the mood and representing the characters. But the best formulaic writing in the world will be boring as tears without the unique creativity that we all enjoy from our wonderful authors. smile

One last point: Tank wondered:
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Do we really need this?
Well, obviously the Merriweather people think we do. goofy As long as there's no insinuations or deprecations regarding Kerths vs. Merriweathers -- and despite Paul's anxieties, I'm optimistic enough to hope that this isn't the case -- why not? After all, we all want to support and encourage our authors... especially if it means we'll get more fics! thumbsup

Hazel, apologizing for the megillah


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Clark: Superman gets the guys in capes, Lois and Clark get the guys in suits.

-- Action Comics 827
#146311 01/17/05 07:19 AM
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When it all comes down to it, it's just a contest. Not that important in the long run. <g> It's not like first prize is a book deal or something...
LOL! How very true, Laura. I think it's inevitable though that if you organise this kind of event - in fact, any event - people will want to know details. Ask K-Comm. goofy It's not that they're taking the whole deal too seriously, it's that they're interested and curious and excited about this new venture and want to know more about how it all works and fits together. Which is surely what any organiser wants? A response from the core group they're hoping to attract support from and a 'Tell us more!"

I think it's a fun new venture, although I'm a little dubious on the logistics of the details. Whether they are tweaked or not will be up to the MC and how much participation they're aiming for. But I wish it all success and good luck to all who participate. thumbsup


LabRat smile



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Aramis: Yes, sorry.
Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.


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#146312 01/17/05 07:32 AM
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Oh, I'll be entering. I'm always open to feedback, and this looks like an opportunity to get specific feedback of where I personally can improve as a writer. <g> One thing about being a writing major, they don't leave you many illusions about your failings as a writer...


Laura

PS: As to the other Laura's introspection issue: one of my friends had a thirty page story for senior seminar composed of introspection and sitting on a plane. He flunked. The universal standards of good writing call for a balance of introspection, narrative, dialogue, and action... Just some food for thought. I have no idea how much introspection the Merriweather judges will think is too much. <shrug>

PPS: Might I suggest Strunk and White's The Elements of Style? It's the writing handbook that every writer should own...


“Rules only make sense if they are both kept and broken. Breaking the rule is one way of observing it.”
--Thomas Moore

"Keep an open mind, I always say. Drives sensible people mad, I know, but what did we ever get from sensible people? Not poetry or art or music, that's for sure."
--Charles de Lint, Someplace to Be Flying
#146313 01/17/05 08:10 AM
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One thing I haven't seen answered is when the submission deadline is. Since January is WAFFy Vignette month, do we need to get our stories submitted by January 31? Or is the judging supposed to be completed by then? Is there a a timeframe for how much time will elapse between the submission deadline and the announcement of the winners?

Oh, and will each individual author receive a copy of all the judging sheets, so he/she can review the comments and know where the problems/successes were in the story?

Kathy

#146314 01/17/05 08:22 AM
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Ah, the "introspection" issue raises its head again...

Laura, I don't know how many readers/writers who frequent the message boards have taken writing classes beyond what was required in high school. I, for one, haven't, but even I know that
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The universal standards of good writing call for a balance of introspection, narrative, dialogue, and action
as you reminded us.

And as I believe has been mentioned during other discussions, it is undeniable that some of the stories in our fandom are weighted more heavily on the introspection side than is "accepted" by the standards taught in school. Does that automatically make them bad stories?

It is an established fact that in the L&C fandom, there are writers who love introspection. There are also many readers who love it as well, otherwise some of these writers' stories would not be as popular as they are. I happen to love it, although I will admit that occasionally there are times when my eyes glaze over a bit, and I feel that perhaps "less is more" would have been a bit better in this case.

There are also respected writers who use very little introspection, as well as readers who much prefer that.

Both POVs should be respected, as everyone has different tastes.

I remember studying books in school - admittedly this was high school English, so perhaps I was too young to know any better - that I didn't enjoy at all, and these were considered "great pieces of literature". They weren't to my tastes, but obviously *someone* considers them great. Would they all line up well under the "universal standards"? How would some of them fare being judged by the criteria listed on the scoring sheet? Perhaps not all that well...

And in a vignette, for example, are you still expected to have the balance of all the elements mentioned earlier? I would think it would be a tough job to fit that all in in so few words, but I'm no writer...

Kathy


"Our thoughts form the universe. They always matter." - Babylon 5
#146315 01/17/05 10:31 AM
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Like everyone else, I'm intrigued by this completely different approach to judging fanfic awards! laugh

I can see the point of having the judges be anonymous during the actual judging period. But, looking at the scoresheets, and seeing all those prompts for extra information (two aspects that were well done, two aspects that need work, etc.) it seems clear to me that the scoresheets are intended to be sent to the authors after the judging is finished. Will the name of each judge be included with their scoresheets? In other words, will the judges' names be published after each round?

And another point that occurs to me - I know, it's a bit sad that I'm this detail-oriented... blush The scoresheets say things like "put comments on the back" and "use an extra sheet if necessary". Are physical pieces of paper going to be sent to the entrants after the competition, which implies that snail-mail addresses are needed for each entry? Or is it all going to be done via email (in which case the scoresheet wording probably needs tweaking)?

It all sounds terribly organised - a lot of work has obviously gone into it, and that judging is going to be a real labour of love! Kudos to all of you, whoever you are!

Mere smile


A diabolically, fiendishly clever mind. Possibly someone evil enough to take over the world. CC Aiken, Can You Guess the Writer? challenge
#146316 01/17/05 11:56 AM
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Looking at the response, it has become blatantly obvious to me that none of y'all have entered any real writing contests.
Well, I've never been to medical school, but I know enough that I'd like to see the diploma of any doctor who I'd ever consider letting practice medicine on me.

I'm with Yvonne in that I cannot place any value on an award given by judges who remain completely anonymous and are appointed by an anonymous committee.

Quote
The judges were selected by the Merriweather Committee...
What criteria was used to select the judges? Years of reading fanfic? Professional experience in the real world of publishing? Extensive knowledge of the show itself?

Quote
Names were proposed and voted on...
Who voted?

Sure, judges of national contests may remain anonymous, but there is some established basis of competency assured by the contest promoter, whose name is not usually anonymous. If not, that's a contest I'd certainly not bother entering. If Ray Bradbury read and liked my story, I'd be proud. But how do I know that the mysterious un-named committee members haven't voted Larry, Curly and Mo to be the judges?

Like Paul, I find the "mission statement" on the front page of the Merriweather Awards website somewhat insulting and a whole lot presumptuous especially in light of the anonymity of those involved. To purport the idea that anonymous judges appointed by anonymous committee members know better than the readers of LnC fanfic what constitutes a good story is pretty arrogant. Not to mention the fact that this statement implies that because something is popular it is, therefore, not legitimate. A story might actually be popular because it is well-written. Not that this is always the case. Heck, in the history of all literature there have been popular stories that were horribly written when examined from a technical perspective. Even so, to lump all Kerth-winning stories together and declare any accolades given them to be invalid seems a tad bit imperious.

I do hope that, by answering all of the questions put forth in this thread, the Merriweather Committee will start something new and worthwhile. It's always a good thing when a writer can find a new source of constructive critique for their writing, and this has the potential of being such a resource if it can be established that the critiques offered are truly unbiased.


Lynn


You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
#146317 01/17/05 03:10 PM
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Sorry, but unless I know the credentials of the people judging my work, I can't place any value on the judgements they make.
I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this one. I suppose that makes everyone's Kerths completely worthless. wink A friend of mine won a RITA award last year (google it if you want to know what it is). That is done anonymously by published authors, some of whom are more published and more in-the-know about writing than others. I doubt seriously that Linda's gonna send her statuette back. wink

Also, I just got through judging a preliminary round of the Golden Heart (you can google that too). Because RWA is such a close-knit group, it's common to receive an entry that you recognize or from someone you may know. If it's from your absolute bestest buddy, you probably would have trouble being objective (or at least you'd worry that others would question your objectivity). But I got an entry from someone I know casually and felt able to judge it fairly. One section in my judge's packet stood out to me.

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Because each judge is as different as each entry, we rely on your skill as a writer, your dedication as a reader and your professionalism as a member of RWA to evaluate each entry in a fair and consistent manner. Your scores should genuinely reflect where, IN YOUR OPINION, this entry lies in the pursuit of "excellence in romantic fiction."
I donned my cloak of professionalism and trudged onward. laugh

Congrats Laura on your writing. I entered my first contest last year and had to PAY about $25 or $30 to do it! Heck, this one is free. What a deal! It's been so long since I looked at my own stuff I can't remember what might be eligible to enter and what's not.


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#146318 01/17/05 04:08 PM
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quote:
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Sorry, but unless I know the credentials of the people judging my work, I can't place any value on the judgements they make.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this one. I suppose that makes everyone's Kerths completely worthless. A friend of mine won a RITA award last year (google it if you want to know what it is). That is done anonymously by published authors, some of whom are more published and more in-the-know about writing than others. I doubt seriously that Linda's gonna send her statuette back.
Seems to me that in this instance Linda did know the credentials of the judges. She knew that the contest was supported by a reputable group (RWA is national and very well respected by the industry and the RITA Awards are well-known with some history standing behind them), and she knew that the judges were all published writers. I'm sure she would not feel as strongly about keeping her statuette if it had been awarded to her by an anonymous group of committee members who simply assured her that the judges had been chosen and voted for by those same committee members. Likewise, I would hope that Linda would not have been disheartened by a poor review of her story had it been given by a group of anonymous judges who might have known nothing about writing at all. wink

As for the winners of Kerth Awards, they are all very aware of the credentials of the voters. They know that the voters are those who read and enjoy LnC fanfic and, for the most part, are "experts" in this very specific genre. There are no secrets, and no one individual judge - or voter - is put forth as any kind of expert qualified to offer more than his or her own humble opinion and preferences.

If someone is qualified to judge and award points supposedly based on something deeper than his or her own personal likes and dislikes (I like introspection - this story is good/I hate introspection - this story is bad), seems some sort of credential is in order.

I don't think anyone here expects the committee to put forth a resume on the judges to justify the reason the judges are qualified. But I don't see any reason why there has to be so much secrecy. In fact, based on this comment (and I've edited to make it apply in this fandom):

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Because each judge is as different as each entry, we rely on your skill as a writer, your dedication as a reader and your professionalism...to evaluate each entry in a fair and consistent manner. Your scores should genuinely reflect where, IN YOUR OPINION, this entry lies in the pursuit of excellence...
that judges, if they are truly doing the best they can to be unbiased and fair, should have no problems putting forth their names as one of the judges. Yes, I understand that such a policy might invite unwanted backlash from disgruntled writers who disagree with an evaluation. Perhaps each judge does not have to divulge exactly what he/she said about a particular story, but there is no reason he/she should feel fear in having his/her name put on the list of judges.

There is something to be said for standing up for your opinion, something that an indivual should have no trouble doing if he/she feels it was given honestly and fairly. And if the Merriweather Committee has chosen its judges in the same manner - fairly and with certainty that the judges will remain unbiased - it should suffer no hesitation in divulging its methods for selection as well as the names of the committe members.

Lynn


You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
#146319 01/17/05 06:20 PM
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*rubs hands together*

Let me start out by saying that I'm very glad to see a real, judged writing contest finally being implemented in this fandom. It appears to answer the shortcomings of the Kerth awards in a way that's very logical and straightforward. I've been waiting a long time for something like this to come along, and I can't wait for the competition to begin. That being said, I'd like to offer my humble opinion to several points made in this thread.

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Seems to me that in this instance Linda did know the credentials of the judges. She knew that the contest was supported by a reputable group ...and she knew that the judges were all published writers.
Is it enough that the Merriwether committee stated that all the judges were FoLCs, or Fans of Lois and Clark? That's what this group is all about, after all. A FoLC doesn't, by extension, necessarily have to be knowledgable about fic, but I personally don't think that an intimite knowledge of all stories written in the last x years or of the evolution of fanfic is a necessary credential to judge the quality of a story. I also don't personally care of the people doing the judging is a professional writer or not. As long as I can be reasonably assured that the person doing the judging is not a complete doofus, I'll be happy.

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As for the winners of Kerth Awards, they are all very aware of the credentials of the voters. They know that the voters are those who read and enjoy LnC fanfic and, for the most part, are "experts" in this very specific genre.
I have to disagree with you there. There is no qualification that a Kerth voter be a person who is well versed in fic, or even that they've read the story they're voting for. It could be some anonymous person in cyberspace who stumbled upon the nomination form and voted for the stories with the longest titles, who knows. There's also no assurance or verification that the stories that are the "winners" actually received the most votes. The KComm is perfectly out in the open, but unfortunately the arrival at the results are not. I'd personally feel much better with the opposite situation. And given the amount of grief that people have received in ficdom in recent years for voicing unpopular or independent thought, I don't blame the committee for keeping themselves under wraps. If the don't want to reveal themselves, then more power to them.

It seems rather cynical and far-fetched to think that an anonymous judge reading an anonymous story, on their own time, somehow has an ulterior motive. I can understand the concerns that a story might be recognized, but IF the story has been read by one voter and IF they remember who wrote it and IF they, for whatever reason, wanted to put the screws to that person (that's a lot of ifs), the other judges would seem to be able to cancel out that scheme.

I congratulate the Merriweather Committee for putting up a website that obviously had a lot of thought put into it. I look forward to throwing my stories into the ring. smile

AnnN.


To thine own self be true.
#146320 01/17/05 06:23 PM
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Lynn, honey, looks to me as if they already have. And it was only democratic in the organization committee. They've given us a new, lovely set of awards that work like a *real* judged contest. All the griping and screaming that you don't like their methods probably won't make a difference.

<shrug> It's a self-entering contest. If you don't like it, don't submit stories. It's as easy and simple as that. Ignore it if you don't like it. That's what I tend to do with the Kerths, because I think that *they're* unfair and I don't trust them further than I can throw them. (Since my opinion on them is well known, I feel free to express it.)

I send off stories to various contests and never know who the judges will be. There *is* a certain level of trust involved, but until *proven* (at least in my mind) untrustworthy, I'll go ahead and give it a try. Again, it's just a CONTEST and it doesn't really MATTER.

To me, it looks like they're going to provide some lovely constructive criticism. The challenge of entering the contest is can you handle it? I know several poor writers (not all in fandoms--remember, LNC is one of four that I'm in as well as classes) who freak out at the slightest word that their stories aren't perfect. (Usually said writers can't string together a grammatically correct sentence, let alone write a cohearent story.) If you want slavish praise, this obviously isn't a contest for you. But if, like me, you want to learn how to become a better writer, it looks like a good thing to enter.

Laura


“Rules only make sense if they are both kept and broken. Breaking the rule is one way of observing it.”
--Thomas Moore

"Keep an open mind, I always say. Drives sensible people mad, I know, but what did we ever get from sensible people? Not poetry or art or music, that's for sure."
--Charles de Lint, Someplace to Be Flying
#146321 01/17/05 06:31 PM
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I was surprised to see that the Merriweathers were actually being instituted. I'd heard some discussion about it a year ago, but nothing since, so I assumed that the logistics were too difficult to overcome.

However, I thought I'd add some comments based on my experience on the contest circuit this past year.

1. I've never known a judge by name--except one who pretty much panned my entry but had such insightful comments on the review sheet that I sent an email to her through the contest coordinator. To my surprise, she shed her cloak of anonymity and we corresponded until I was very clear on what she was looking for in my entry and how I needed to provide it. And she was right. If I don't correct it, the problem I had could very well keep me from publishing that book.

2. The one piece of information I had about each judge was whether he/she was a published writer in romantic fiction, published in other genres, an unpublished award winner (that would equate to our Kerth winners), or simply an unpublished writer. So perhaps these judges will be identified as award winners, fanfic writers, or fanfic readers.

3. I may be a multiple-Kerth winner in folcdom, but I'm a very little fish (is there something smaller than minnow? wink ) in the world of aspiring novelists, so when I entered contests, it was never with the expectation of winning. The only thing I was interested in was a critique of my work based on criteria similar to what is being used for the Merriweathers. And it was the quality of the critique that determined whether I thought the judge was any good or not. Generally, the people who scored me the highest tended not to provide much by way of a specific critique. On the other hand, some of the people who scored me lower provided wonderful critiques which have helped me improve my writing. For me, that's the true value of a contest like the Merriweathers.

Because of that, I would recommend that the Merriweather organizers not accept previously published stories. While most of you are concerned about judges recognizing the stories and being too biased in their judging, I think the main issue is that there is no purpose in critiqueing a work that the author has no desire to change or rewrite. Since only one person can win in any month's contest, that would mean all the other entrants who submitted already published work would receive nothing of value for their efforts.

BTW, the way the various RWA chapters manage to keep from overwhelming their judges is by putting a limit on the number of submissions in a particular category: the first 25 or 50 or whatever will be judged. The on-line chapter I belong to also holds an entirely electronic contest. All submissions are sent as email attachments to the contest coordinator who strips off identifying marks from the email and sends the entries to the judges who are identified only by a number. So in my chapter, my chapter-mates are the ones who are judging my work, and there are only 200 of us. The only requirement is that judges not judge a category that they have entered or judge an entry from one of their critique partners (BRs). From the website, it looks like the Merriweather committee is using the same practice.

Do different judges give different scores? You betcha! Out of 120 points, I might score from 91 to 115 (that's 76% to 96%), and I've heard of much wider ranges. I might have one judge who says I have a real storyteller's voice and another who says my writing is so bland that she can't identify my voice at all. One can't wait to see the book in print while another recommends beginning writing courses.

It's an entirely different kind of contest than the Kerths. Despite the obvious competition from using performance-based scoring, this kind of contest is less about who wrote the story that the most people liked best than about discovering what works in your writing and what might help you write a stronger story. If that's the kind of information you would like to have, then the Merriweathers are for you. Otherwise, don't worry about it and stick with the Kerths.


Sheila Harper
Hopeless fan of a timeless love story

http://www.sheilaharper.com/
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