Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Condensed writing

I was away for a week because of a larger bout than usual of RL, an unexpected assignment, and strept throat. Hopefully, I'll be back for a bit now.

Some very interesting discussions re writing while I was gone! With that in mind, I thought it might be interesting to post a snippet of the article I worked on a few days ago.

Brief summary: I got a call from a charity organization for whom I've done work before. They wanted an account of a luncheon that had taken place a few weeks ago, to place in the two weekly papers that serve the international English-speaking Orthodox Jewish community. (try saying that three times fast ) It was a quickie job, really, because someone had already written the article for one paper, and they just wanted it rewritten differently for the second one. For the record, one of these two newspapers has a much more amateur writing style than the other (at least in my own opinion, although I know a lot of people share it) and I knew they needed a more polished article for the more professional paper.

I imagine that outside the Orthodox Jewish world, such an article would have a very different flavor; but basically, I needed to describe the organization and its goals, mention the various speakers and summarize their addresses, and emphasize how important it is to contribute to the organization.

So I went ahead and did the job, keeping it more or less the same length as the article they'd sent me. I sent it off by fax and considered the job complete.

Then I got a phone call. "Um, the article is very professional, just what we wanted, but... er... we forgot to mention that there's a word limit."

They wanted me to cut the word count by more than 50%.

Ah, well, keep the customer happy... I did end up paring over 50% off the word count and managed to keep the essentials intact, even if I had to delete some of the details. But when I was finished, I found myself intrigued by the idea of this as a writing exercise. Obviously, some writers are more verbose than others. Let's be glad that writers are no longer paid by the word, as they used to be, so at least any verbosity is because it's really the writer's style and not just an attempt to get more money! But tight writing is always a plus, and I thought it might be interesting to have our fanfic writers take a few paragraphs of their own work and try to condense it a bit.

I've included a sample of the article I wrote, both the original and the "condensed" version. One of the speakers cited a parable from a book on ethics and applied it to the organization. Keep in mind that it's for a religious paper. I also translated any Hebrew words before posting it here.

Original, slightly revised for posting here:

And here is the condensed version of the same parable with its explanation: Believe it or not, that was the least religious aspect of the whole article.

So there you have it. Thoughts? How important is it for a good writer to make every single word count? (When you're not getting paid-per-word or being asked to keep to a certain word limit.) Is it better to write as broadly as you can, or to write neatly and concisely, carefully weighing each word? And does anyone want to take a few paras of their own work and try to condense it as an exercise here in this folder?

I await comments and opinions with interest.

Hazel

I've entered a few contests where there was a word limit. So you'd darned well better make every word count. In both cases I first wrote what I wanted to convey and did a word count. From there I started looking at every word. Is it necessary? Can I replace two words with one? Do I even need this sentence? Eventually I was at the precise word count -- 500 words for one, 1000 words for the other -- and darned proud of it.

I wonder if some of us come by wordiness from our high school days when we tried to bluff our way through essay questions with a "quantity rather than quality" answer?

Good topic, Hazel. Hope your throat is better.

I think there needs to be some sort of balance between the two. I tend to be a really concise writer, which is why I have a heck of time writing anything that's longer than a few pages. Everything I write tends to have a 'here's what happened, the end' pattern, and really, who wants to read that, especially if it's something for the purpose of entertainment (like fanfiction)? On the other hand, I also don't want to be buried in things like my Organic textbook, which babble on for pages at a time about things that a) I really don't need to know or b) could have been said in a couple of paragraphs.

JD

One of my English teachers advised my class to keep our writing concise and I've always tried to stick to his advice. If anything, I tend to have difficulty getting an assignment *up to* a word count rather than keeping it below a limit, which is not always a good thing with English writing assignments.

Nan

Even though I pretend to be a writer in this fandom, I've never taken any courses or instruction so everything I do is by the seat of my pants.

I believe that there is a real difference between writing factual accounts or instruction, and fiction or entertainment.

One of my problems has always been that I'm the type of writer who has 'the movie' going on in his head as he writes. I know what the imagery is supposed to look like, but I don't, or can't, always get that visual across in my writing. You don't want to bore your readers with long descriptive passages, but you have to give them enough to 'see' what you wish them to see. Sometimes two words work better than one.

Conversely, I do try not to say the same thing over and over, which I feel can be a trap that is easy to fall into when trying to milk the angst of a situation.

Bottom line, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but one test I sometimes use it to read a passage outloud and hear what it sounds like. It's not that unusual for a sentence that looks real good in type to sound like crap when spoken outloud.

Tank (who has no idea why he joined in this discussion)

First of all Hazel, you brought me back to my own career as a high school student when we had to write precises--cutting a passage down by 2/3 while maintaining the same tone and meaning of the passage. (I hated writing precises

As I sit back now, I realize that being able to express myself concisely without being redundant is something that is worth striving for. Let's face it: we want our audiences to understand what we're trying to get across rather than get lost in a lot of unnecessary and redundant words.

Having said that, I also need to add (now there is a big waste of words if I've ever seen one :rolleyes: ) that every genre of writing has different expectations. Writing a news article is very different than writing a piece of fiction is very different from writing an article for a science journal. The demands of the genre make different demands on the style of the writing and the usage of the language. In some cases, examples need to be explained in more than one way or there need to be several kinds of proof.

Take Hazel's example. Because she was writing for an Orthodox Jewish paper she could intersperse Hebrew words, but writing here she had to translate them...that may have added to her word count.

Similarly, I would say that the first version that we got to read was much more interesting and compelling as a parable than the second one which I'd describe as 'just the facts, ma'am'.

So, a good writer practises both concise writing and more 'verbose' writing. The good writer also knows when to use each one....

And then there are times when the writer has to throw out all her good instincts in order to appease some editor who wants 1/2 the word length. Go know!

gerry

Hazel, you've hit on something really interesting to me.

If anything, I am too concise. Tending to be spare with my words and, like Nan, turned in many an essay below word count during my academic years. I have clear memories of disappointed Profs saying, "This looks a bit lean, CC", and thinking, "Yeah, but just read it..."

What I admire, and always notice, is writing that flows- that is lyrical and descriptive, enhancing the story, but not detracting from 'what's happening.' I like to feel like a portrait is being painted for me. Whereas, in my writing, I do feel I am 'sketching.'

Would love to learn the flowery, but not too flowery, business of writing. Think we could do this exercise in reverse? Toss out our lean, sparse sentences and dress them up a bit??

I'll be reading this thread with interest. Would love to see what some of our naturally descriptive writers say on this subject.

CC

/me joins the short essay club with Nan and CC. Yeah, I know what you're thinking - she writes L&C stories that never seem to end! But at school and university I hated writing essays. Whether factual or fiction, I was always struggling to write more than a paragraph or two. My first 3,000 essay at university nearly killed me. Spent most of my time counting words and trying to find ways to pad it out - mind you, are there really 3,000 words one can write on early British music?

Yvonne

I'm one of those who tend to use a lot of words. I just had to write a report for school with approximately 3,000 words. I ended up 7,500 words. My teacher didn't mind, luckily, since there was no way I could cut it down. Maybe by 500, but nothing more. The rest was all important information. With other reports I usally have more words too, but I've learned to cut it down.

It does help I study journalism (almost graduated by now) and have a lot of practise in it. At the magazine I currently work for it often happens an article needs to be changed to a smaller format because there are suddenly more advertisements. Or that you can only have that many lines. So after a while you know what to pay attention to. It's easy to combine sentences, and always delete the parts where you repeat yourself. Just keep it short and to the point. Sometimes it's still very hard to do, but I rather do it myself than let somebody do it for me.

I would have loved to give examples, Hazel, but I doubt any of you would follow it in Dutch. Translating just wouldn't be the same then.

When it comes to fanfic, I can pretty much write what I want. But I always keep in mind if it's not too much or if the reader is really interested in it. Most times, I do find a balance I'm comfortable with.

Saskia

Well, I don't really have a problem with either.

If called upon to it - and I have been in the past, even with fanfic - I can stick to a word count fairly easily. I have fond memories of stories co-written with a good friend for other fandoms, where the rule was we each wrote two pages and two pages only then passed it along.

With that format, I had to choose my words carefully and that was a good challenge at times - paring it down and keeping it true to what I wanted for my section was always lots of fun.

But, otoh, without a wordcount deadline I pretty much indulge myself on the basis that fanfic writing is fun and a hobby and what I want goes.

Have to say that this fandom has increased my word count markedly. (Like you never noticed <G>). Introspection accounts for a lot more words than I was used to before writing for LNC. I still find it a little amusing at times that after writing almost entirely introspection-free stories for nigh on three decades, it wasn't until I started in this fandom that I switched to entirely the opposite.

LabRat

Ah, ads! Don't get me started! <g>

My case back's Sas one, only...as reporter and EC, my articles aren't length limited. If a subject or a topic is worth it, I can develop it on 25 pages, if I feel like it. In the end, I'll be the one building it from A to Z, BRing, occasionally paste-uping it and putting my name on it, which means my responsability's involved.

Same thing for Daily newspaper except the most pages amount you can develop your article on is half from two pages (A3 sized pages). It also depends on the colum you're paper's gonna be published in (info hierarchy stuff).

Back to condensed writing, I did my internship in a magazine that put it to an art. The motto seemed to be, "why write on a postcard what can stand on a stamp"? Disturbing at first, but now I'm grateful for it 'cause it forces you to be more synthetic by going straight to the point.

Opt for short sentences. Of a great help when it comes to cutting harshly into a paper without damaging its general meaning.

"The right word and nothing but the word".

Honestly, I can't tell. Depends on your goal, on who your readers are. Words might sounds good taken alone but put together, they could lead to...phrases you wouldn't even read in your dentist's waiting room.

Plus, as I don't consider myself a good writer, maybe I should jump to question 2 .

I don't think a miracle recipee exist. When not limited by a number of words, broad writing can be tempting. But I try to quit that, at least on a journalistic field. I can't tell for writing. But for journalism, time's precious. Carefully weighting each word is sometimes necessary, but you can't do it all the time. Otherwise, it becomes a brake that can be hazardous to your story-focusing.

Geez, am I making sense?

I have to decline. Lack of time... even in french.

Babbling Carole

Working to word limits... ah, the perennial complaint of my students when faced with a 2000- or 3000-word limit! I've never written fiction with a maximum word-count in mind, although I frequently think, when starting a story, 'this should be X pages long', and then find it expanding... and expanding... and expanding!

I have had the experience of having to cut down academic papers to fit publishers' limits for book chapters; in those cases, a 7000-word paper (pretty standard) had to become a 6000-word or even 5000-word chapter, including references. That's when you start looking for two-word phrases which could be substituted for five-word ones, and even punctuating differently if it will reduce the word-count! But my perception of what it does to the writing is the same as Gerry's: you end up losing much of the polish and rhythm. Like Gerry, I think Hazel's original version has the quality of beautiful storytelling; the précis is just... prose. It's like the difference between a bland summary report and GK Chesterton.

Précis one of my stories? Well, there were the Readers\' Digest fics!


Wendy

Interesting topic, Hazel. After being made to feel like a miserable failure in a college creative writing class, I've spent most of my life writing in a journalistic style. Since I've been writing fanfic for L&C, I've found that I think more about the story I'm trying to tell or the idea I'm trying to communicate or the scene I'm trying to describe than how many words I use.

When I wrote my first long fanfic, I remember being very concerned about it being long enough. I spent a lot of time working out plots to flesh out the story. Fortunately, Sheila Harper was kind enough to read what I had begun writing and to look at my outline. She then sagely advised me to pare it to some particular specifics because, otherwise, I would have something rivaling Gone With The Wind in length.

Initially, I just write what I'm seeing, thinking or feeling for a scene. Then I edit, working on using precise vocabulary to describe the moment, taking out the superfluous and trying to keep the story flowing while maintaining the integrity of the emotions. Because of my creativity failure in that creative writing class, I've always had more faith in my editing than in my first drafts. Having a good beta reader and receiving helpful feedback after posting on the boards are critical parts of finalizing any story for me. I guess all that editing is one of the reasons I write so slowly. It's also why it takes me over half an hour to write a post like this.

Jude



"Simplify. Simplify."
Henry David Thoreau

I probably fall well over the line into verbose as I seem to use 10 words where maybe three would have done the trick. Like Tank, I have a movie running through my brain, and in order to describe, sometimes I just go on and on and on. I've been trying, after I write, to go back and "lean" down the verbage a bit.

For all of you profs and editors out there - from my limited editing experience - I've always found it a heck of a lot easier to pare down someone else's work that it is to pare down my own. Do you find the same? Perhaps it's the lack of ownership. None of the words written by someone else belong to me and are not my "little darlings" that I just hate to see die. It seems so much easier to whip out that red pencil and line out words that another person struggled to select with special care <g>. It is also easier to see redundancies in another person's writing - to note that within a paragraph that writer has stated the same bit in maybe two or three different ways and that all but one can be eliminated.

I admire those - like CC - who can pack such a whollop with fewer words. Their writing might be sparse, but nothing at all is lost with the reduction in word count. As they say so often, it's quality, not quantity.

Lynn

Lots of interesting replies here!

Gerry and Wendy, I definitely agree with you that the verbose version of the story has a lot more charm than the first one. I wasn't actually recommending that writing be condensed as much as citing this experience and wondering how (or if) it should reflect on fictional writing. I was also quite interested in the term "precis," which I've never heard before -- I never had to do those as a student, although it would have come in very handy a few days ago!

Obviously, as many of you have pointed out, writing should be allowed to flow naturally, without word restrictions or requirements. That's why I joked about the days when writers got paid per word - descriptions were overlong and adjectives were insufferable. The other extreme, of course, is being asked to pare a story literally down to the bones, as I was, to fit the word requirements laid down by the paper. I believe "happy medium" might be the appropriate phrase here.

LOL at the Reader's Digest suggestion, but I was looking for something just a little bit more, er, verbose than that.

Redundancies should be reduced, but descriptive writing deserves to stay. I'd much rather read a longer, lyrical story than one with such concentrated plot that I need to dilute it to read it! (Mixing metaphors a bit, but what the hey.) At the same time, though, authors can fall into the trap of writing pages and pages of information the reader already knows -- either because the character is reflecting on events that took place on the show with excruciating detail, or perhaps thinking back on every word and gesture of the previously-written scene of the story. Either way, I know that I often tend to skim past that kind of introspection and get to what I consider the "real" part of the story.

To sum up concisely: Write as much as you need, but not more that you must.

Hazel

All this talk of precise and concise writing brings back a memory.

Way back in college I tried to get into a creative writing course being taught by Phillip K. Dick. His reply was concise and precise.

On a single half sheet of paper he wrote; "Certainly Not!"

Tank (who was forever scarred by that event and has never written anything since)

Hazel, You said:

Well, after giggling quite a bit, I finally managed to condense the following passage from Super Stud from

To this:

Of course, I could have condensed it a bit more by taking out the word 'passionately.' But I thought it was important to retain some of the feeling of the section

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist )

ML

I think it's very important to make words count, but it also depends on what you're writing and who your audience is.

For example, I write a lot of poetry. One of the styles I write frequently is haiku. I love the challenge of creating an image and trying to get it into 17 syllables. It's difficult, but not impossible. I like to write free verse poetry as well, but when I can't condense the image, I find that I often go back and revise it into a shorter poem later.

I also love writing longer fiction. You can't always make things as concise as possible, especially if you're writing original fiction in a setting nobody has seen before, such as science fiction or fantasy. In that situation, descriptions are necessary to build images.

In fan fiction, writers tend to not be as descriptive because they're writing for an audience who also happen to be fans of that TV show, comic book, movie, etc. and know what the characters and the settings look like. The descriptions tend to focus on the characters' actions and dialouges, rather than other things.

But that's just what I've noticed since I've been writing.