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Author Topic: Superman's New Costume
Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
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Sorry, but I don't like the look. Without the red speedo, it just makes his red boots look stupid. I don't like the red belt - I prefer the yellow.

Here's the link
Yahoo Article

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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mozartmaid
Features Writer
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It also makes his torso look weird and elongated... sort of like the Mattel doll of Superman. Ugh... Look, Superman is the only one in the world who can pull off blue spandex and red briefs and not look stupid--- why change it? Besides, his costume is as iconic as the character himself! I've also read that they are doing a whole reboot of the comics anyway, including taking Lois out of the picture, at least for a while...just not good! [Frown]

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Reach for the moon, for even if you fail, you'll still land among the stars... and who knows? Maybe you'll meet Superman along the way. ;)

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Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
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Eep! That's horrible! No Lois????

I agree, Superman's outfit is an inco. Why mess with something so ingrained in society's mind?

Ugh, who thinks up these dumb changes????

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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VirginiaR
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
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I agree. I don't like the new look. Perhaps it's just the picture the show in the Yahoo! story. Maybe it's the angle at which they show him - total crotch shot - but I prefer the old suit.

Remember when the new Wonder Wonder show tried to relaunch her with a new suit? It had so much bad feedback the show didn't even get picked up for the upcoming season. (Probably for more reasons than her costume, I'm sure... but that's beside the point.) Don't mess with a good formula. Coke - Good. New Coke - Bad. Superman (with Lois) - Good. New Superman (w/o Lois) - BAD!

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VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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mozartmaid
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Yeah, about the reboot sans Lois, read this.

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Reach for the moon, for even if you fail, you'll still land among the stars... and who knows? Maybe you'll meet Superman along the way. ;)

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VirginiaR
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Oh, Mozartmaid, that's just awful. Superman married takes away from his dual personas? Please! It shows that a REAL man loves and honors his true-love forever. What does it say about superheroes if Superman can't make his marriage work? Sure, maybe they'll get some fans who have the frat-boy attention span when it comes to women, but they'll also lose HOW many of their female readers?

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VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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Lynn S. M.
Kerth
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One word: Blech!

Joy,
Lynn

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VirginiaR
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
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I just had new thought. <<shudder>> I hope this doesn't have anything to do with the new Superman movie coming out next year. If it does... <<pulling hair and screaming>>>

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VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.

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mozartmaid
Features Writer
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Some disturbing bits from the article:
quote:
"In 'Superman Earth One,' I'm writing a young Clark Kent before he gets involved with Lois, so he can have other relationships."
quote:
"[The marriage] made for a very nice story, but it eliminated an important part of the Superman mythos: the struggle between the two halves of Superman — his publicly known face, admired by millions, and his human side, meek and emotionally vulnerable,"
Uh, wait? Isn't Lois the one who balances the two sides of Superman? And the struggle isn't resolved with them married necessarily... it's part of what makes the relationship interesting!

And what's worse:
quote:
"There's some value to be had in exploring their married life, but I'm not sure that's something that couldn't be gotten from exploring some other hero's married life, and I don't think it outweighs the value of that great dichotomy that was always at the heart of Superman, the idea of Superman as the symbol of adulthood and power, and Clark as the inner, less-respected adolescent self-image.
I hate this idea... of Clark as the weaker, less-respected character. The Superman mythos IMO is much stronger (as L&C proved!) when Superman is the disguise and Clark is the man behind the suit--it's his values and humanity that makes Superman work!

quote:
"Writing them as a married couple is fun, because I like that romantic, supportive banter," Busiek added, "but it does soften the concept."
Um, isn't there more to a marriage than 'romantic, supportive banter'? Please!

Almost a positive note:
quote:
"I think the main benefit of having Clark and Lois married is that it grounds Superman in a very human and adult experience," he said. "We've seen the Man of Steel struggle to balance the life of Clark Kent. ... with the role of superhero. And the romantic triangle has been played out for nearly three-quarters of a century."
And apparently, that's bad... cause relationships that last can't be exciting or interesting...?

Sounds to me like fan-boys who are tired of writing about a committed relationship. [Roll Eyes]

quote:
I just had new thought. <<shudder>> I hope this doesn't have anything to do with the new Superman movie coming out next year. If it does... <<pulling hair and screaming>>>
Unfortunately, Virgina, it does:

quote:
Starring Henry Cavill as Superman and Amy Adams as Lois Lane, the movie will tell the origin story of Clark Kent, leading up to the early days of his life as Superman.

In other words, his unmarried life.

The article also mentions how L&C influenced the comics in the 90's as well... because they coincided L&C's marriage with the marriage in the comic books... so maybe it's just the sign of the times? [Huh]

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Reach for the moon, for even if you fail, you'll still land among the stars... and who knows? Maybe you'll meet Superman along the way. ;)

Posts: 989 | From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Jun 2010  |  IP: Logged
Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
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Part of why I could never get into Smallville was because it was the "pre-Superman" days o Clark.

I agree, it is infinately more satisfying to see Clark balance being Clark AND Superman. And it was gratifying that LnC showcased just how important Lois was in helping him achieve and maintain that balance.

I admit, I've never been a comics girl. So I don't know much of the Superman stories outside of the movies and LnC. But this whole "new" spin on Superman reeks something awful to me.

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
Member # 8595

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And also: I think having Clark married actually makes it a little harder for him to maintain his dual identities. He's got more responsiblity that way. He's a superhero, a reporter AND a husband. LnC did an excellent job of portraying just how hard it was for Clark once he started getting close to Lois. Sure, she could cover for him at work and whatnot (as the article mentions), but what about all of those interrupted evenings at home, those important conversations that got interrupted by calls for help?

Sounds to me like a couple of crabby fanboys who don't really understand the dynamics of a marriage.

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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mozartmaid
Features Writer
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Deadly Chakram:
quote:
Part of why I could never get into Smallville was because it was the "pre-Superman" days o Clark.

Yeah, that was my beef with Smallville as well---but the 'Lois Seasons' (Season 4, and their relationship really moves ahead Season 8) are worth watching... I finally started watching it just this year and then had to go back and suffer through the whole series--Seasons 1-4 aren't worth it, really, and season 7 is heavy on Lana drama, so I'd avoid those eps and just watch the ones with Lois... And, as they develop the L&C relationship, the writers were obviously influenced by 'our' L&C. There are a few moments that even seem taken directly from the show... Also Erica Durance (who plays Lois) really gets and loves the character. They sometimes give her crappy lines or out-there character traits (Lois loves Whitesnake and monster truck rallies, huh?), but she makes them all work!

quote:
I admit, I've never been a comics girl. So I don't know much of the Superman stories outside of the movies and LnC. But this whole "new" spin on Superman reeks something awful to me.
I'm not a comics girl either, but I'm realizing you can't ignore them because they influence what ends up in mass-media TV and movies.


quote:
I think having Clark married actually makes it a little harder for him to maintain his dual identities. He's got more responsiblity that way. He's a superhero, a reporter AND a husband. LnC did an excellent job of portraying just how hard it was for Clark once he started getting close to Lois.
I totally agree! That struggle was a big part of the interest in their relationship---how does Clark manage to keep all the balls in the air, so to speak.


quote:
Sounds to me like a couple of crabby fanboys who don't really understand the dynamics of a marriage
[Laugh] My thoughts exactly!

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Reach for the moon, for even if you fail, you'll still land among the stars... and who knows? Maybe you'll meet Superman along the way. ;)

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DW
Columnist
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Ok, the new suit is eww. And it doesn't look good at all!

I agree, why change something so iconic? And only Superman can make wearing briefs on the outside of his suit not look weird...

Who thinks up these changes and that they'd be good? [Confused]

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Karen
Merriwether
Member # 54

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I was wondering how they were going to change it. One of the things that reverted back to Schuster's(?) descendants with the lawsuit was the iconic look, which meant that DC had to make a change to the suit. I guess just getting rid of the briefs and changing the color of the belt was enough for the lawsuit. I was really afraid they were going to mess with the S.

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"You need me. You wouldn't be much of a hero without a villain. And you do love being the hero, don't you. The cheering children, the swooning women, you love it so much, it's made you my most reliable accomplice." -- Lex Luthor to Superman, Question Authority, Justice League Unlimited

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Marcus Rowland
Kerth
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The problem is that we're not the core audience for comics. I don't know what the statistics are, but I'm willing to bet that this is being pitched at a predominantly male readership in its late teens and early twenties, willing to spend a fairly large chunk of cash on comics every month. That isn't me, or most of the people I know, so pleasing me is pretty low on DC's list of priorities. I'd imagine that applies to most people here.

I think that they will alienate a proportion of older readers, but any change will do that anyway - so if they're going to do a major reboot, I'm guessing that they feel they might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, and dispense with everything that "detracts" from their plans.

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Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures, The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game

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Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
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quote:
I was really afraid they were going to mess with the S.

Ugh! There probably would have been mass riots in the streets had they messed with the S.

quote:
I totally agree! That struggle was a big part of the interest in their relationship---how does Clark manage to keep all the balls in the air, so to speak.

Exactly! I MUCH prefer the married Clark who has the emotional support of Lois but the harder time maintaining all of his responsiblities than the single Clark who has the easier time maintaining his dual identities but doesn't have the emotional support of Lois. Again, one of the reasons why I love Superman II is (aside from the General Zod plot which I adore) is that Lois gets to find out the secret and is there emotionally for Clark (until that whole stupid Kiss of Amnesia there at the end).

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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Tank
Merriwether
Member # 115

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I'm not a fan of the 'new look' but then it is comics and nothing is ever 'forever'. Does anyone who read the comics remember the electric blue costume?

Thankfully, it didn't last too long, but it was around for a year or so.

If the new suit doesn't prove popular then it will revert. Or the next creative team that wants to 'reinvent' Superman will do so by 'going back to the roots.

If the stories are interesting and the characters remain true to who they are then I won't be too bothered by a slight change in the costume.

If they mess with the 'who' the charactera are too much... then I just save my schekels for a while until things get back to the way I'd like.

There's always L&C fanfiction.

Tank (who told everyone way back when that DC editorial was never really happy with the whole Lois and Superman marriage thing)

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Lara Joelle Kent
Kerth
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Well, I see it this way:
1) Lois won't be completely out of the picture, she just won't start out as Clark's wife. Which means that the whole getting closer will start all over again - and that's way more interesting to me than the married stuff.
2) In the comics, they had quite a few issues regarding LnC's marriage that were still unresolved, among them the absolute biological incompatibility between humans and Kryptonians, problems of a sexual nature (never without protection, or it might prove fatal for Lois, and never with Clark playing an active role because he could all too easily break her in half - after all, soul-mates were from the show, not the comics!)
3) Most important DC characters (including not only absolutely all superheroes, but also characters like Lois!) will get a complete make-over, and the traits that define them will be fleshed out over time. And it would defeat the purpose of starting with a clean slate if you start LnC as a married couple.

And who knows? Maybe DC saw the light and will make Clark the real person, and Superman the disguise...

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The only known quantity that moves faster than
light is the office grapevine. (from Nan's fabulous Home series

(The sketch and original lines for my avatar were done by Jennabob)

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Marcus Rowland
Kerth
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Apparently a quote from an interview with DC executives:

The target audience are men age 18 to 34 though they do realize that they have readers in other demographics.

Not exactly unexpected, but doesn't bode well.

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Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures, The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game

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Mouserocks
Top Banana
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For starters: [Shock] What the Krypton??? The suit without the panties?? Not working for me at all. Secondly, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of Lois Lane! Why on earth would they consider leaving her out more- Lois Lane makes the Superman stories! I have to agree with DC on this one:
quote:
Exactly! I MUCH prefer the married Clark who has the emotional support of Lois but the harder time maintaining all of his responsiblities than the single Clark who has the easier time maintaining his dual identities but doesn't have the emotional support of Lois. Again, one of the reasons why I love Superman II is (aside from the General Zod plot which I adore) is that Lois gets to find out the secret and is there emotionally for Clark (until that whole stupid Kiss of Amnesia there at the end).


That's the curse of the Superman movies- long credits and sucky ambiguous endings (come on. He turns back time, amnesia kisses Lois, and then in the new movie flies off without any real resolution). [Lol] But the emotion behind it is what drives the entire plot. How many war or typical "guy" films fail because there's not the right balance of action and emotion? At least in my book anyways...

Point being: Superman without the emotional backbone of Lois Lane is only half of a man. I believe the true value of the Superman mythos isn't about the dichotomy of a demi-god as much as it is about the creation and evolution of a full man.

Maybe I've been spoiled by L&C, but that's my take away. As long as Clois survives, I'll survive. [Love]

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"The world is a mess and I just need to rule it." -- Dr. Horrible

"Everyone's a hero in their own way, In their own not-that-heroic way!" -- Captain Hammer

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Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
Member # 8595

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quote:
What the Krypton???
That's awesome! I may have to steal that sometime. [Big Grin]

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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Artemis
Pulitzer
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The test for Henry Cavill getting the role of Superman was to put on the iconic suit and wear it in front of the production team. And nobody laughed at him in the suit. That was the clincher. So the suit's important.
On another front, IMHO the reason Tom Welling and Smallville lasted so long was that he never put on the suit. He did put it on in the last double episode, but we never saw him full length except for a really long shot.
I think what killed the Wonder Woman reboot was the argument over the costume.
[Cool]
Artemis

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History is easy once you've lived it. - Duncan MacLeod
Writing history is easy once you've lived it. - Artemis

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IolantheAlias
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quote:
I think what killed the Wonder Woman reboot was the argument over the costume.
Total agreement from me. I'm not sure how to describe that proposed costume... "unfortunate" might be the kindest way to talk about it.
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Karen
Merriwether
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Not just that, but it looked bad all around, from what I've heard. There were several costumes. There's a clip of her running looking angsty that just looks *bad*. There's a picture of it here

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"You need me. You wouldn't be much of a hero without a villain. And you do love being the hero, don't you. The cheering children, the swooning women, you love it so much, it's made you my most reliable accomplice." -- Lex Luthor to Superman, Question Authority, Justice League Unlimited

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Lara Joelle Kent
Kerth
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quote:
Originally posted by Deadly Chakram:
quote:
What the Krypton???
That's awesome! I may have to steal that sometime. [Big Grin]
I'd rather change it to "What the Phantom Zone???", but, yeah, great one. [Razz]

quote:
Originally posted by IolantheAlias:
quote:
I think what killed the Wonder Woman reboot was the argument over the costume.
Total agreement from me. I'm not sure how to describe that proposed costume... "unfortunate" might be the kindest way to talk about it.
Although I do agree on the costume 100%, I doubt that was all the reason for the failure. (I mean, the costume got changed to the usual shorts, but it still looks awfully cheap.) What was much worse than the costume - which was bad enough as it was - was the way they changed the character. (Triple identity, constant cursing, no compunction about killing (repeatedly) - it's a complete butchering of the character IMHO. Additionally, there was an obvious lack of romance planned...)

Apart from that, I don't think the new Superman costume is all that bad. Sure, it's a change, but not such a bad one. Could have been much worse. (See WW costume...)

--------------------
The only known quantity that moves faster than
light is the office grapevine. (from Nan's fabulous Home series

(The sketch and original lines for my avatar were done by Jennabob)

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Deadly Chakram
Pulitzer
Member # 8595

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quote:
Originally posted by Lara Joelle Kent:
I'd rather change it to "What the Phantom Zone???", but, yeah, great one. [Razz]

.......................

Apart from that, I don't think the new Superman costume is all that bad. Sure, it's a change, but not such a bad one. Could have been much worse. (See WW costume...)

Superman in a shiny outfit? *shudder*

And yes, What the Phantom Zone works well too. [Smile]

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Battle On,
Deadly Chakram

"Being with you is stronger than me alone." ~ Clark Kent

"It's all weird! We live in Metropolis!" ~ Jimmy Olsen

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Lynn S. M.
Kerth
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Or if you wanted something that sounded more similar to its Terran equivalent, you could always go with, 'What the Rao???'

Joy,
Lynn

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Marcus Rowland
Kerth
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Rao etc. works for someone with a strong Kryptonian background; not sure it's right for Clark as we know him, a boy brought up in Kansas.

In my Supergirl stories I've been careful to have Kara use phrases like that, while Clark is more down to earth in his language.

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Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures, The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game

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